Brewing temperature questions

Currently I am brewing a 5 gallon batch of irish red ale. The temperature reading on the side says 72 degrees, and the yeast I am using is Nottingham ale yeast. That yeast's optimal temperature is less than 70 degrees. Will this temperature difference have negative effects on my beer? How imperative is it that I keep that cool? I still have about 3.5 weeks left to go in the fermenter.

Oh, not good. Some yeasts do ok when out of their optimal temp ranges and stay fairly neutral, nottingham isn't one of them unfortunately. I personally would never ferment that over 65. Its going to produce some kind of nasty tasting stonefruit esters. These form very early in the fermentation so there is likely nothing you can do to reverse it now, and they won't fade significantly with aging. It might turn out to be something you enjoy, but likely you'll have to chalk it up as a learning experience. I would look into some inexpensive temp control methods, such as swamp coolers. If you want to make the best beer, temp control is crucial.

You can get off flavors from to warm of ferment. I like to keep mine down in the lower range.

That is a little high and like others have said, you may end up with some off favors, but I would not worry about it all that much. I have gotten away with not having a ferm-cooler so far, but I have really been humoring the idea of trying out a swamp cooler. Do a search in the forum if your interested in a little DIY cooler. Some can be really intense and others really simple, Good luck and keep us posted once you've tasted your beer.

The off flavors are created during the first part of the ferment when the yeast is going crazy with all the sugars to eat. If you start your ferment with the fermenter at room temperature the natural yeast activity will raise that temperature in the fermenter by several degrees putting the mass at a much higher temperature that the yeast's preferred. If you start it cooler, near the bottom of the yeast's preferred temperature, the yeast don't go so crazy and they will take longer to eat all the sugars and that slower process won't raise the temperature as much.

Once the fast ferment is over (2 to 4 days usually) you can let the temperature come back up to room temperature so the yeast finish the job of eating the last of the fermentable sugars and clean up after themselves.

I brewed the beer on Saturday. It started at around 68, rose to about 69-70 for a day and went to 72 yesterday. I just moved it to a colder room. Do you think I will have a lot of off flavers? Also, what do stonefruit esters taste like?

I brewed a RyePA with nottingham at 70* and so far it's the best beer I've made.

You'll be fine, and you'll have good beer. Next time try the same thing at a lower ferm. temp for the first few days and see what the difference is, if any.

arringtonbp said:

I brewed the beer on Saturday. It started at around 68, rose to about 69-70 for a day and went to 72 yesterday. I just moved it to a colder room. Do you think I will have a lot of off flavers? Also, what do stonefruit esters taste like?

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It sounds like you should be ok, though I don't have any experience with Nottingham. I have heard it has more of a tendency to produce off flavors outside of its range though. Try not to let it get any higher, and if you can cool it down any, that might help.

I have had a few beers ferment in the 70s and they really did not turn out bad at all. 68 seems to be the average number people shoot for so the quicker you can get it down around there and keep it there the better. RDWHAHB your beer is still going to be great and even if it isn't perfect it will still get you drunk when you need it.

arringtonbp said:

I brewed the beer on Saturday. It started at around 68, rose to about 69-70 for a day and went to 72 yesterday. I just moved it to a colder room. Do you think I will have a lot of off flavers? Also, what do stonefruit esters taste like?

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You might be ok. There's a real tipping point for Nottingham and it happens somewhere around 72. If it had a couple days at a lower temp it could be a lot of the ester profile has been estabilished. People who talk about how their yeast did fine above 70 are talking about different strains. Stonefruit esters is kind of like... a funky apricotty vapor, more of a smell than a taste, that can get QUITE strong. I brewed the first beer ever I did not like 2 months ago. It was an irish red, I used nottingham, and it got too hot.

Well, since this is my first beer, Off- aromas are not a huge deal to me (as long as the aroma isn't like garbage or gym socks or something). I would be more worried about off-tastes. I moved the beer to another room. The thermometer reads 70 now. I should note as well that the thermometer I am using is a stick-on thermometer on the side of my fermenter. It's probably not too accurate.

arringtonbp said:

Well, since this is my first beer, Off- aromas are not a huge deal to me (as long as the aroma isn't like garbage or gym socks or something). I would be more worried about off-tastes. I moved the beer to another room. The thermometer reads 70 now. I should note as well that the thermometer I am using is a stick-on thermometer on the side of my fermenter. It's probably not too accurate.

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Congrats on your first brew! You'd have to be using a belgian strain to aquire the gym socks/jock strap esters, and in that case it's a good thing I'm sure it will be acceptable. Those fermometer strips might not be completely accurate but they are fairly good within 2 degrees probably.

bottlebomber said:

Congrats on your first brew! You'd have to be using a belgian strain to aquire the gym socks/jock strap esters, and in that case it's a good thing I'm sure it will be acceptable. Those fermometer strips might not be completely accurate but they are fairly good within 2 degrees probably.

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Thank you. It's strange because it feels quite drafty and cold in my apartment. I even closed the vent that was above my fermenter. I suppose the yeast could be producing some heat.

arringtonbp said:

Thank you. It's strange because it feels quite drafty and cold in my apartment. I even closed the vent that was above my fermenter. I suppose the yeast could be producing some heat.

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Oh yeah, the yeast definitely produce heat when they're metabolizing the sugar. Anywhere from 3-8 degrees actually. If you just put your fermenter in an ice chest or rubbermaid chest and fill it with cool water, the water carries the heat away much better than the air can, and it just overall gives a more consistent temperature throughout the ferment. I don't have a ferm chamber yet, so I'm basically doing this for every beer.

bottlebomber said:

Oh yeah, the yeast definitely produce heat when they're metabolizing the sugar. Anywhere from 3-8 degrees actually. If you just put your fermenter in an ice chest or rubbermaid chest and fill it with cool water, the water carries the heat away much better than the air can, and it just overall gives a more consistent temperature throughout the ferment. I don't have a ferm chamber yet, so I'm basically doing this for every beer.

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I have also heard of people freezing gallon jugs and putting them into the water (outside of the fermenter) to keep it cool. This seems like a whole lot of work lol. I would assume that there are strains of ale yeast that go up to 75 degrees? Maybe I should use one of those next time.

arringtonbp said:

I have also heard of people freezing gallon jugs and putting them into the water (outside of the fermenter) to keep it cool. This seems like a whole lot of work lol. I would assume that there are strains of ale yeast that go up to 75 degrees? Maybe I should use one of those next time.

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The only strains of ale yeast that perform well above 70 is pretty much going to be the belgian strains, and that's only because they produce pleasant tasting esters that are a major flavor component in the beer. I do the ice water thing, its actually not bad at all. I put a frozen gallon of water in the ice chest with water, then I put my fermenter in. I let the ice bath bring my temps down from 80 (about as cold as my immersion chiller can get it) down to 60. I pitch my yeast at 60 then let it creep up to about 64 over the next 24 hours. It works great. You can ferment lagers this way too, with just an extra frozen gallon a day.

bottlebomber said:

Oh yeah, the yeast definitely produce heat when they're metabolizing the sugar. Anywhere from 3-8 degrees actually.

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even as high as 10F !

arringtonbp said:

I have also heard of people freezing gallon jugs and putting them into the water (outside of the fermenter) to keep it cool. This seems like a whole lot of work lol.

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compared to what? the work of brewing? - depends on if you want your work to be worth the effort or not.

take pride in your efforts, man! see it through!

mediocre now means mediocre beer. If you're going for "easy" you need to get in the car and head to your nearest grocery.




Welcome to brewing.

Hang Glider said:

even as high as 10F !





compared to what? the work of brewing? - depends on if you want your work to be worth the effort or not.

take pride in your efforts, man! see it through!

mediocre now means mediocre beer. If you're going for "easy" you need to get in the car and head to your nearest grocery.




Welcome to brewing.

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Yeah I should be able to do the gallon jug thing. Would it help at this point? Or should I just wait til the next batch?

arringtonbp said:

Yeah I should be able to do the gallon jug thing. Would it help at this point? Or should I just wait til the next batch?

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It won't do any good at this point. Worst case it will crash your yeast and make them drop out before their finished, leading to more off flavors.

Okay. So for next time, should I only do it the first 3-4 days? Or do I leave the fermenter in the water with the frozen gallons of water for all of primary?

bottlebomber said:

It won't do any good at this point. Worst case it will crash your yeast and make them drop out before their finished, leading to more off flavors.

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arringtonbp said:

Okay. So for next time, should I only do it the first 3-4 days? Or do I leave the fermenter in the water with the frozen gallons of water for all of primary?

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The 3-4 days are critical. After this its not so imprtant. Stop adding ice and just let it stay in the ambient water temp for the duration. A little heat toward the end is good actually IMO

bottlebomber said:

The 3-4 days are critical. After this its not so imprtant. Stop adding ice and just let it stay in the ambient water temp for the duration. A little heat toward the end is good actually IMO

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The ester off-flavors that you mentioned earlier...Aren't these appropriate for ales in some ways?

Many wheats have the essence of bananas and cloves due to higher than "normal" fermentation temps - on purpose. Most other ales go for neutral flavor profiles, or flavors that compliment the beer. Read different yeast profiles at your favorite home brew supply store - many go into great detail.



a word on the 'gallon jug thing' -

I found it easier to freeze several smaller water bottles. Yes, they thaw quicker, but they're easier to fit into the freezer, easier to fit in the fermenting bath, and easier to 'fine tune' with.