Belgian Wit Questions

I'm about to try a Belgian Wit, but I am a little confused.

I ordered an hefeweizen kit, but had the supplier substitute the white labs 400 (belgian wit) yeast for the hefeweizen yeast. However, I didn't think about the hops. He supplied 3/4 oz Mt. Hood hops for bittering, and 1/5 oz. Cascade for aroma. Most of the recipes for wits call for haltertau or saaz. Should I hunt down one of these, or will it really make that big of a difference?

Also, I plan to use coriander and orange peel. Where do I get the orange peel? I know dried orange peel can be bought, but can I just peel an orange and use that? Do I use all parts of the peel, or do I have to scrape some of it off? It seems like the white part of the peel would be too bitter...

I'm still a bit of a noob but my next brew I was thinking about doing another Wit and using the zest of an orange and a little lemon and maybe a little lime zest as well. I was gonna add it to my boil with about 5 minutes left.

as for the hops i'm not sure...it might be worth just doing a quick search. you can often find what hops are good for what and what kind of accents they'll impart on your beer.

cdanprice said:

I'm about to try a Belgian Wit, but I am a little confused.

I ordered an hefeweizen kit, but had the supplier substitute the white labs 400 (belgian wit) yeast for the hefeweizen yeast. However, I didn't think about the hops. He supplied 3/4 oz Mt. Hood hops for bittering, and 1/5 oz. Cascade for aroma. Most of the recipes for wits call for haltertau or saaz. Should I hunt down one of these, or will it really make that big of a difference?

Also, I plan to use coriander and orange peel. Where do I get the orange peel? I know dried orange peel can be bought, but can I just peel an orange and use that? Do I use all parts of the peel, or do I have to scrape some of it off? It seems like the white part of the peel would be too bitter...

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Well couple things a Hefe yeast will be a bit different than a belgian wit yeast. The hefe yeast will give more clove and banana flavors..the wit will not..In a wit beer spices like coriander, orange peel ect. can be used. I would get any coriander from any store..crush of course..I like 1/3 to 1/2 an ounce last 15 minutes of boil. The orange can be dried from a brew shop..or better than that use a fresh good orange or tangerine or both and peel 1 oz and use that. the white will bitter for sure so scrape outside only. Cascade is fine..what is the IBU of the Mt Hood?

Jay

discgolfin said:

The orange can be dried from a brew shop..or better than that use a fresh good orange or tangerine or both and peel 1 oz and use that. the white will bitter for sure so scrape outside only. Cascade is fine..what is the IBU of the Mt Hood?

Jay

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I'm not sure about the IBU of the Mt. Hood hops, the bag they came in is just a clear baggie with a white label that gives type and weight.

So, you're saying just take the orange zest, or just scrape as much of the white stuff off of the back of the peel as possible, and throw in the peel?

cdanprice said:

...So, you're saying just take the orange zest, or just scrape as much of the white stuff off of the back of the peel as possible, and throw in the peel?

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One word for the proper tool: Microplane. Nothing zests like one. Should be available at Target, or many places online, like Amazon.

cdanprice said:

I'm not sure about the IBU of the Mt. Hood hops, the bag they came in is just a clear baggie with a white label that gives type and weight.

So, you're saying just take the orange zest, or just scrape as much of the white stuff off of the back of the peel as possible, and throw in the peel?

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Yep..last 10 to 20 minutes..I would make a batch with 1/2 to 1 oz for starters and see how u like it. If it is not enough you can always add a bit more..if it is too much you are stuck with what u have,
Mt Hood is usually a bit lower so it should be fine..What do you like for spices? I have done too much coriander and it can easily overpower anything else so start with 1/2 to 1/3 oz.IMO

I have read chamomille is good in a wit and plan to try this in the near future.

Jay

discgolfin said:

Yep..last 10 to 20 minutes..I would make a batch with 1/2 to 1 oz for starters and see how u like it. If it is not enough you can always add a bit more..if it is too much you are stuck with what u have,
Mt Hood is usually a bit lower so it should be fine..What do you like for spices? I have done too much coriander and it can easily overpower anything else so start with 1/2 to 1/3 oz.IMO

I have read chamomille is good in a wit and plan to try this in the near future.

Jay

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I'm still fairly new at this, so I haven't experimented with a wit yet. I have however tasted several commercial wits, and I like the taste of the coriander, but I see how it could be overpowering. I also would like a pretty strong contribution from the orange. I was planning to use only about a half ounce of the coriander, and maybe an ounce or two of orange.

I can expect the flavor of the orange zest to be relatively sweet, right? I've seen references to sweet orange peel and bitter orange peel.

ma2brew said:

One word for the proper tool: Microplane. Nothing zests like one. Should be available at Target, or many places online, like Amazon.

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+1
I have one of those and I use it on everything from zesting to grinding up garlic and ginger to fresh grating parmesean cheese. they work wonders in the kitchen.

I went to the microplane website, and they have several models. Do you use the fine grater? It says that one is good for zesting...
And on that note, do you "plane" the peel down until you start to see white? How far into the peel do you go?

i usually don't go down to the white....i stop when it looks like a mixed pale orangey whiteish.

Also if you can look for organically grown oranges. I have found the zests to be sweeter when I have used them in food. I have never used them in beer...yet. Also you dont have to worry about whatever preservatives they spray on them throwing off your beer taste. Sure its a long shot but why chance it if u can avoid it. Just my 2 cents.

Try the Mt. Hood for aroma. As I recall they're a Hallertauer hybrid. Noble-esque.

Kai said:

Try the Mt. Hood for aroma. As I recall they're a Hallertauer hybrid. Noble-esque.

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I agree, Mt. Hood is a great aroma hop for belgian beers.

And when you're zesting, avoid the pith (white part), it's extremely bitter.

Um? Dunno about you fellows, but every example I've ever seen of the dried Curaçao orange peel - bitter or otherwise - has had the pith on it.

It's the same stuff used in Witbiers the world over. If you're looking to do something different, use other stuff. It'll still be beer; it just won't be traditional Witbier.

See, the balancing bitterness in Witbier doesn't necessarily come from the hops - it comes from the spices, especially bitter Curaçao orange peel. You get a nice peppery note from the coriander, but much of the bitterness comes from the orange. Many of the homebrewed Witbiers I've tasted have either been too sweet - because the brewers forgot about the bitterness imparted by the orange - or too hoppy, because anything's better with more hops in, right? :rolls eyes: Sometimes the brewers have known exactly what they were doing and were pleased their beers had the desired characteristics. Most were concerned that their "Witbier" didn't taste at all like the commercial examples of the style they'd tasted. Really? Go figure. When you go mucking about with the traditional ingredients, you can't possibly end up with the traditional taste. Before one mucks about with a style, one should at least have brewed it "bog-standard". If you don't know where you've come from, you don't know where you're going.

If you're looking for a substitute for the dried Curaçao orange peel you get from your LHBS, you need the entire peel, pith included, in small chunks, so the wort can get at it. Also, ditch the Cascades and save them for something appropriate, 'cause Witbier ain't it, especially as aroma hops. That's my advice.

[Edit]

I just read the BJCP Style guidelines for Witbier, which astound me. They say:


Huh? How the hell do they propose to do that!? I've got LD Carlson Sweet and Bitter Curaçao orange peel in my brewing supplies. I just went and looked at them, and they've got pith on them. Should I be getting out my Dremel tool and start removing the pith?

I confess I do not get this. It also throws out centuries of the style's history, in which the spices were there to perform part of the function of hops - provide bitterness - as well as a refreshing citrus tang.

Cheers,

Bob

Bob,
Perhaps it also has something to do with the specific oranges in question? From what I reading on Wikipedia, Curacao oranges have a pretty think skin, so possibly it's a pretty high rind to pith ratio and the pith amount is insignificant in this case?

Oranges from the states, particularly CA and FL, the latter (FL) tasting much better to this CA native, have a pretty sweet and much more delicate skin flavoring than the Caribbean bitter oranges do, so avoiding the pith is probably much more important in that case.

73,
KI4LND

very interesting......welp now i have something to look up today while bored at work!

thanks guys.....

i mean one could always do a batch experiment. one bach can be the control (no orange zest or pith), one batch only zest, and finally a batch with the whole skin. these can be done in one gallon growler batches to save money and ingredients. just an idea

So what was the verdict on hops here? I'm going to brew a witbier in a few days, and I was planning on using just Willamette, but now I'm considering Hallertau for finishing.

My first batch was a Wit beer, Northern Brewer kit.

Saaz hops were good and I would get the right yeast. There are lots of good suggestions for the orange peel here.

When are you making your additions?

On my Wit I added 1oz fresh ground ginger (dont use powder) for 6-7 min. Ginger is a good mix with the coriander and orange, just dont use too much.

I went ahead and used the hops that were supplied with my kit. I assumed that the flavor may be slightly different, but probably not that noticable. I do caution you about using fresh orange peel though. Most recipes called for 1 oz. dried orange peel, and since I was using fresh, I figured I would need more because it is still saturated with water. My thinking was that since dried orange peel weighed less than the same amount of orange peel when fresh, I should increase the amount of fresh stuff. Well, as I was grating my oranges, I noticed that they were not as aromatic as expected, and that the taste wasn't quite as strong as I was hoping. So I doubled the recipe, using 2 oz. fresh peel vs. 1 oz. dry. Well now, when I smell my airlock, the only smell I can discern is orange. I may have used too much.

Just be careful...

I've used fresh orange peel a number of times, and a lot of that aroma will fade as it ferments. Nothing to be concerned about.

They were out of Hallertauer at the brew shop so I opted for East Kent Goldings for finishing. I've used ginger in holiday beers and it came out great. I'm sticking to the traditional coriander and orange peel only for this batch though.

figured this would be a good place to pose these questions. i have a wit in the primary that is ready to be bottled or otherwise conditioned. i just came across 5 glass one-gallon jugs (apple juice for apfelwein, two birds on stone) and i want to split this off into 4 test batches and a control.

one of the batches will be "dry-hopped" with more citrus peel (possibly a mixture of lemon and lime) and another with chamomile. i'm not sure about how much to use per gallon, though, or if the chamomile will give any noticeable flavor without being boiled. but this is all in the name of experimentation, so any suggestions will be highly appreciated.

i'm also considering tossing some candi sugar and champagne yeast into one of the batches to pick up some different yeast esters and see what effect the sugar has on the body and alcohol content. any input on how much sugar to use, or if this is worthwhile at all?

I usually use the peels of five fresh oranges during the boil, so maybe just one orange would work for what you're talking about. Not sure about the chamomile though. A pound of candi sugar would give you a huge boost in alcohol content for just a one gallon portion, somewhere in the neighborhood of 3% or more. Maybe try a quarter or half pound of that. More might distort the flavor profile.

on another note in wits, or for that matter, any time you use fruit in the boil. Do you then leave it in for the primary or make sure it doesn't make it in there?

The only time I've used any fruit in a boil was with orange peels. All the other fruit I add during secondary and leave for two weeks before moving the beer to a tertiary. I'm pretty sure boiling the fruit in the brew and leaving in primary would lose most of the flavor and aroma.

yeah i guess I mean the zest. When you use orange/lemon peals.

I don't make too big of a fuss about it. Usually it's not an issue because I use a racking cane most of the time to prevent hops from getting into the carboy, and that stops the zest from getting in as well. I don't think it would be a big deal if some got into the fermenter though.