Son of a $&^%&I

About six weeks ago I brewed (AG) a Bavarian Dunkelweissen. Everything seemed fine. I mash, sparged, boiled, sanitized, etc. I don't take gravity measurements because I'm lazy and figure 3 weeks for fermentation/3 weeks for conditioning should be fine. While a bubbling blow off tube isn't a measure of fermentation, I get giddy like a school girl when I see bubbles (which I saw a lot of).

Anyways after my six week wait, I open two bottle and what do I find but a bland (almost like water) brown liquid that doesn't remotely taste like beer. heck, Coors Light has more flavor. Can anyone think of my problem? My grains were about 6-8 months old but I can't figure this would be a problem. Anyways, here's my grain bill:

Rice Hulls - .5 lb
Wyeast Labs Weihenstephan Weizen
Weyermann Pilsner - 4 lbs
Weyermann Pale Wheat - 6 lbs
Weyermann Chocolate Wheat - .5 lb
Hallertau Pellets, German - 1 oz.

Mash @ 160 for 60 min
Sparge @ 170 for 15 min
Boil for 60 min
Ferment for 3 weeks
Condition for 3 weeks

your mash temp seems a bit high. but with that temp your beer shouldn't be thin at all. what was your O.G and your F.G?

kpr121 said:

The higher the temperature the less fermentable the wort will be, leaving more unfermentable sugars that give the beer fuller body and taste.

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I corrected your statement above. :fro:

If you're too lazy to take gravity readings, how do you expect us to help? Besides mash temp it could be a lot of different things, stop being lazy.

HMmmm. I didn't think about the mash temp being too high. I usually make the assumption that I'll lose a lot of heat when a transfer the water and mash in the grain. Maybe I've been thinking too much (this would be news to the missus).

Since when do high mash temps lead to thin watery beers? More like a thick sweet mess.

Did you crush your grains?

sudsmcgee said:

I corrected your statement above. :fro:

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Ahh thanks. I thought it sounded funny to me but I didnt reread my statement. I need more coffee.

OP: What was your OG/FG? You may not have gotten great efficiency.

kpr121 said:

OP: What was your OG/FG? You may not have gotten great efficiency.

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You bad at reading, he said he's too lazy to do such things.

wildwest450 said:

You bad at reading, he said he's too lazy to do such things.

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Thank you oh wise one

Yeah you've gotta take gravity readings, especially if you are having this problem. Sounds like you mashed too high and sparged to short. Did you batch sparge or fly? With the high mash temp I'd expect you to be complaining that the beer is too sweet, not too thin. I agree with Homercidal's question too, did you crush? If you did, there has to be something wrong with your sparge.

Homercidal said:

Did you crush your grains?

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Heh, that's the IT equivalent of, "is your computer plugged in?" That's all I could think of too. Everything else should have produced a sweetish tasting beer. I don't know of any infection that renders your wort to plain water.

HMmmm. I didn't think about the mash temp being too high. I usually make the assumption that I'll lose a lot of heat when a transfer the water and mash in the grain. Maybe I've been thinking too much (this would be news to the missus).

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So you used 160F water to dough-in? Or was that the temp measurement you took after you did that? If you dough-in with 160F water you will be way under that after the fact.

You may have mashed far to low. If you don't pre-heat your mashtun you easily could have been around 140-145F. Which would explain your watery mess. Possibly even lower and you had very poor efficiency.

Was your water temp 160 before adding the grain? Is your mash tun a converted cooler? You probably mashed really low if you transferred 160 deg water to a cold mash tun and added room temp grain.

These may be stupid questions but given the other responses...

Nashbrewer said:

So you used 160F water to dough-in? Or was that the temp measurement you took after you did that? If you dough-in with 160F water you will be way under that after the fact.

You may have mashed far to low. If you don't pre-heat your mashtun you easily could have been around 140-145F. Which would explain your watery mess. Possibly even lower and you had very poor efficiency.

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Yes, mash temp is the temp of the mash after everything is all mixed together, not the temp of the water before you add the grain. On your next batch, use a thermometer and a hydrometer. you will make better beer.

i think that with out proper assessment measurses on your part that all your asking from us is speculation, time to invest in taking readings. without them your saying I will be completley happy with result regardless of the outcome since im not going to bother taking the time to collect the data that would allow me to trouble shoot if and when there might be problem.

crackhead7 said:

without them your saying I will be completley happy with result regardless of the outcome since im not going to bother taking the time to collect the data that would allow me to trouble shoot if and when there might be problem.

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Most excellent run on sentence, ever.

That actually isn't a run-on sentence. Rambling, yes. Under-punctuated, certainly. But not a run-on.

Gusher infection maybe? Wild yeast perhaps?

lazy brewing. can't fix something you don't know is wrong.

I get the impression that you do extract beer as well. I know for me I rarely took OG readings because I felt like there was nothing I could do about it anyway. It was a hard habit to break when I switched to AG. It is what it is.

Is the beer "functional"? Meaning if you drink 3-4 beers does it seem as though you had 3-4 beers. If so you probably had a "normal" OG I would think and you might be looking at a temperature problem.

For next time I would try a brewing software. It does all the water temperature calculations and for me it gives me a place to put the OG readings so I don't forget. It is also nice to see where your beer fits in with the style you are making if it is important to you.

Perhaps you could mix your beer 50/50 with guiness stout and see where that leads you

wildwest450 said:

Most excellent run on sentence, ever.

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djfriesen said:

That actually isn't a run-on sentence. Rambling, yes. Under-punctuated, certainly. But not a run-on.

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Lets not forget Passive either! I post threads as if I were speaking, i don't intend them to be necessarily grammatically or technically correct, ohh i forgot there could even maybe spelling errors as well! Cheero, compadres

wildwest450 said:

Most excellent run on sentence, ever.

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You should read James Joyce. Or Cormac McCarthy.

crackhead7 said:

Lets not forget Passive either! I post threads as if I were speaking, i don't intend them to be necessarily grammatically or technically correct, ohh i forgot there could even maybe spelling errors as well! Cheero, compadres

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Perhaps you might want to consider the audience you are writing to. It's not easy to read the way you write.

Just saying'

First things first, you had 6# of wheat and 4# of barley.

You needed to do a protein rest to get the diastatic power up before raising up to a 150ish mash for 90 minutes.

Or in layman's terms your enzymes were overpowered by too much to do in not enough time, and too hot an environment to do it in. I'll wager you had almost no starch conversion.

You made beer colored water.

luhrks said:

First things first, you had 6# of wheat and 4# of barley.

You needed to do a protein rest to get the diastatic power up before raising up to a 150ish mash for 90 minutes.

Or in layman's terms your enzymes were overpowered by too much to do in not enough time, and too hot an environment to do it in. I'll wager you had almost no starch conversion.

You made beer colored water.

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This thread doesn't entirely agree with your comments https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/all-wheat-why-fear-282787/

luhrks said:

First things first, you had 6# of wheat and 4# of barley.

You needed to do a protein rest to get the diastatic power up before raising up to a 150ish mash for 90 minutes.

Or in layman's terms your enzymes were overpowered by too much to do in not enough time, and too hot an environment to do it in. I'll wager you had almost no starch conversion.

You made beer colored water.

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Not really. Wheat malt has plenty DP.

Not if you mash in at 160

Since you don't take gravity readings I'm going to assume you didn't check the pH of your mash. A possibility is you were mashing a good bit over 5.5 with that grain bill and no water adjustments. Your beer will tend to have a dull malt character and weak hop flavor because of this.

wildwest450 said:

If you're too lazy to take gravity readings, how do you expect us to help? Besides mash temp it could be a lot of different things, stop being lazy.

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wildwest450 said:

Since when do high mash temps lead to thin watery beers? More like a thick sweet mess.

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wildwest450 said:

You bad at reading, he said he's too lazy to do such things.

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wildwest450 said:

Most excellent run on sentence, ever.

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GEEEZ Dude. Lighten up a little. I don't see where you added any value to this conversation, and neither did I so there! Cheers, and Happy Brewing!!!

I believe he did add something. He added multiple copies of a picture of two chicks making out, and for that I thank him.