First all grain. MO Fuggles smash?

Ive got 5lbs crushed Marris Otter 2 row on hand,
Also have 2 oz of Fuggles whole leaf.

I have a empty 5 gal carboy also a 1 gall flask.

My yeast choices are:

wlp005 british ale
wlp833 german bock
a pack muntons dry yeast

It seems pretty clear I should shoot for maybe a 2.5 gall batch of MO and Fuggles english IPA or Pale Ale? Bad idea to use some corn sugar to up the ABV? I prefer beers around 6-7%

Can anyone add a little insight into what they would do with those ingredients?

Dunno; I'm never a fan of corn sugar -- I live near Yuengling, and I can always taste the difference. Any chance you have or can get more fermentables? More MO, or DME? You'd only need a pound or two to bump a 2.5 gallon recipe into the ABV range you want.

I'd go for the British Ale yeast, but that's just my personal preference.

I'm actually planning a MO SMaSH as my next batch, but I'm going for a session beer. 8 pounds of MO for 5 gallons, in the mid-4% range. I like Nottingham dry yeast, as long as I can control fermentation temps and keep them on the low end of the range.

Fuggles are like sulfate in the water. I'd make darn sure you like them before loading up. I certainly have my opinions about Fuggles, and they are the kind I should probably keep to myself.

Thats interesting. Fuggles/ sulfate hmmm, I dont know that I like them, they are aroma supposed woody fruity? Maybe I should try a bitter and just use the fuggles for a shot in the beginning of boil

I didn't mean to suggest that Fuggles are similar in flavor to sulfate. Just that those tend to be love-it or hate-it. Since it's a SMASH experiment, it might be a good way to find out if you like Fuggles!

Rather than adding corn sugar to get the ABV you're looking for, you could just droop the batch size. Go for 2.25 or even just 2 gallons. That should boost the ABV plenty.

As far as the fuggles go, I'd go for it. Use a more even hop schedule, rather than putting them all late in the boil. That is more of an English style anyway.

Fuggles is floral/earthy and good in moderation.

If I was going to SMASH this, I'd go 2.5 gallon batch, mash 154*F, pull off 1/2 gallon of first running and boil the snot out of it in a pot on the stove (reduce it to half volume and get some nice melanoidin/sweetness out of it to spruce up the smash), then single hop addition of 1/2 ounce Fuggles at 45 min. Pitch the wlp005.

It'll be a Pale Mild or an Ordinary Bitters.

in response to gotpushrods: Ohh right on. I didnt read right. I am just going to BIAB

Only a 1 gallon batch.

2.5 lbs MO @ 154° 40 minutes in a volume of 1 Gallon
pour 1 gallon of sparge water @ 170° slowly over grain bag in collander.
Collect runnings together and bring to boil.
Take an SG reading to figure my efficiency?
Then bring to boil add 1/2 oz Fuggles hops for 40 minutes Or until 1 gallon remains.
60% efficiency should yield an O.G of 1.057
Pitch rehydrated Muntons dry yeast.

Maybe I am missing something , that sounds too easy.

EDIT: I am digesting what you wrote Signpost and Weezy, must have posted while I was typing.

Weezy said:

pull off 1/2 gallon of first running and boil the snot out of it in a pot on the stove (reduce it to half volume and get some nice melanoidin/sweetness out of it to spruce up the smash)

Click to expand...

I am not sure I understand this part. Are you saying take the first half gallon I get from the mash and boil that until it is 1/4 gallon?

Yep! It'll 'carmelize' that portion of the wort, giving you some sweetness like you added a little crystal malt.

You certainly don't have to. It would give the smash a little bit of complexity. You have to remember, in the old days, tricks like this is how brewers got complexity out of undermodified malt. They created the flavors through brewing methods that are now mimicked by many specialty malts.

Excellent! That sounds great and a fun little step. So I could also get a bit more color from this? Since the MO is so pale, this would be a way to get the smash into the official style of a english bitter. Really cool stuff thanks for the suggestions.

Yes, it'll darken it some.
Have fun. Let us know how it turns out.

Well, I went for it last night.
I used the kettle as the mash tun.
Used all 5 lbs of crushed Maris Otter
Ended up being about 1.6 quarts/lb of water for the mash.
Held between 150° and 155° for 55 minutes.
I removed the grain bag and put it in colander over pot to drain. Poured another gallon of 165° over the grain.

Got an S.G. of 1.03 giving me a lousy 40% efficiency.
I removed 8 cups of the sweet wort and "boiled the snot out of it" per Weezy's suggestion. It reduced by about half in 30 or so minutes.
I added this back to the wort as it was coming to a boil and then added the bittering hops.
A whole ounce of 4% whole leaf Fuggles.
45 minutes boiling and then cool.
I ended with only 1.2 gallons or so?
Got an OG of 1.074 , so I just said the hell with it and filled a 1 gallon flask.
Then pitched an entire vial of wlp005.

Ehhh, guess its gonna be a 20$ 6pack. Hopefully will taste good!

So you mashed with 2 gallons right? Sparged to get to 3.

1.074 at 1.2 gallon from 5 lbs of malt is about 47% brewhouse efficiency. Not good
Did you stir often? How sure of your mash temps are you? Did you taste it?

1.074 is going to get you to 7%+ abv. You could have watered it down at the end...
Still can. A 2 gallon batch will get you to ~4.6%

Now that you mention it, I noticed that my thermometer never went past 202 during the main boil. The first few batches it went up to 212. Maybe it is now off and I mashed 10 too low?

I kept the grain in a loose large muslin bag and mushed it around a few times.

It's hard to say. If you're doing this stove top, you need to be careful with monitoring temps. Stir often. If you turn on heat, set it at lowest setting. Buy a $5 scientific thermometer from LHBS...and have fun brewing! You'll get it going.

It has been 3 weeks in primary now. I am considering priming this with some 100% pure vermont maple syrup I got for last christmas. Terrible idea?
Ive got an OG of 1.072 with a calculated 42 IBUs. That should be enough bittering taste wise but,
I may even dry hop with an ounce of whole leaf fuggles for a few days just to balance the sweetness in the nose. Ill let ya know how this one turns out

timos said:

It has been 3 weeks in primary now. I am considering priming this with some 100% pure vermont maple syrup I got for last christmas. Terrible idea?
Ive got an OG of 1.072 with a calculated 42 IBUs. That should be enough bittering taste wise but,
I may even dry hop with an ounce of whole leaf fuggles for a few days just to balance the sweetness in the nose. Ill let ya know how this one turns out

Click to expand...

Not a terrible idea but I would save the maple syrup for waffles. I don't think you will see a lot of flavor from it and it would just be a terrible waste of pure syrup.

The dry hopping will not change the IBU much. You will get more aroma though and since you boiled your original hop addition for 40 minutes there can't be much aroma left. So I would go for the dry hop. Having never used whole hops I am not sure, but one oz on only a gallon seems like a lot. With pellets even a half oz would be quite a bit on a one gallon batch.

I decided to just go ahead and bottle as the beer tasted pretty balanced and had a nice biscuit like malt taste. It also reminded me of a wine, strangely. Had a slightly slick mouth feel but did not taste any buttery diacytle.

I only needed 12 grams of maple syrup so not enough to miss, I mainly wanted to use it because it was the only sugar I really had on hand other than some honey.
The beer finished at 1.010.

I will revisit this in 8 weeks.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

signpost said:

Rather than adding corn sugar to get the ABV you're looking for, you could just droop the batch size. Go for 2.25 or even just 2 gallons. That should boost the ABV plenty.

As far as the fuggles go, I'd go for it. Use a more even hop schedule, rather than putting them all late in the boil. That is more of an English style anyway.

Click to expand...

+1 to this advice. And if your water profile is soft, add a tsp of Burton Salts.

Whoops, sorry I posted late. I missed the fact that you already brewed it!
I blame missing the post on the glass of Bookers that I am enjoying.

This beer at 25 days in the bottle tasted well...Absolutely awful. No carbonation, I know the maple syrup is slow to ferment but I am considering dropping some carb tabs in these bottles.

The taste was all apple cider (possibly still just a green beer with only 20 days in primary and 25 in the bottle) and hugely strong alcohol smell/taste (went from 1.074 to 1.015 OG and FG). Yep this baby needs alot more time and some carbonation.

At 44 days in the bottle the maple sugar has added a bit of carbonation finally. Still has a bit of apple cider type of smell and taste. Wonder what has caused this? Is it an off flavor from fermentation maybe?