First All-Grain and All-Confused

Equipment:
52 QT Coleman Mash Tun w/ SS Braid and Brass Ball Valve






Tomorrow I will attempt my first All-Grain batch. I currently have around
10 Extract batches notched on my brewers belt. I have gained a tremendous
amount of knowledge from this forum and appreciate all the people who assist
us neophytes. Having said that I am at a point of confusion regarding me brew tomorrow. I have been reading tons of post and doing searches to clarify my position. My biggest issue right now concerns Batch Sparging. After all the reading I have determined this is the best option for me. The only problem is the fact I cannot find one good explanation of this process. I see some that do multiple sparges and some that put all the water in at one time. So I have the following questions.

1. After the 60 min initial rest do I completely drain the Mash Tun?
2. Do I dump the sparge water in and stir the grain bed?
3. How long do I let the grain bed rest before taking second runnings?
4. What is the most accurate software to use on brew day?
5. I have heard some talk about dumping boiling water in on the
second runnings, I thought this was a bad thing regarding tannins.

I have a good understanding of what to do leading up to the first runoff and after everything is collected. The exact procedure I should use for collecting
is where I get confused. I know I am asking a lot of questions so I appreciate
the patience.

1) yes, preferably after a vorlauf (draining a small amount ~1/2 gallon to a gallon to set the grain bed and filter out most of the bigger husk material
2) yes - you can do a single sparge (all of the sparge water at once), or a double sparge (split the sparge water in half and do two sparges)
3) doesn't really matter, stir well, vorlauf, and drain...
4) I don't use software; a lot of people speak highly of BeerSmith
5) that's called a "mash-out" (get your mash temp up to ~168). It's not really needed with a batch sparge

Sounds like you have a plan! Good luck!

antiochsudsuckers.com/tom/allgrainbatchsparging

Try this link. Pretty good overview of batch sprarging.

Here is my procedure for tomorrow:

Collect 8 Gallons of water from my filtration system and
treat with Campden. I have Chloramine in my local water.
Bring strike water to temp and dump in mash tun.
Add grains and stir to avoid dough balls. Check temp and if in
range seal tun for 60 minutes.
After 60 clear and set grain bed. Place collection of 2qt to a
gallon back in mash tun.
Collect first runnings. I guess I will collect half the target boil amount???
Pour sparge water in mash tun and stir. How long do I let it settle
before taking 2nd runnings?
Take second runnings till I have enough to make full boil.

bthorn9435 said:

Here is my procedure for tomorrow:

Collect 8 Gallons of water from my filtration system and
treat with Campden. I have Chloramine in my local water.
Bring strike water to temp and dump in mash tun.
Add grains and stir to avoid dough balls. Check temp and if in
range seal tun for 60 minutes.
After 60 clear and set grain bed. Place collection of 2qt to a
gallon back in mash tun.
Collect first runnings. I guess I will collect half the target boil amount???
Pour sparge water in mash tun and stir. How long do I let it settle
before taking 2nd runnings?
Take second runnings till I have enough to make full boil.

Click to expand...

After you add your strike water to the cooler, close the lid and let it set for ~10 minutes (unless you are pre-heating your mash tun - but this step does the same thing and saves time/water). You're gonna want your strike water about ~18 degrees hotter than your mash temp - you'll lose ~9 to the cooler and ~9 to the grain. This is where software can help.

This on-line calculator can help: http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

Depending on how much water you use for your mash and the weight of the grain will affect the volume of your first runnings. This is another instance where software will help.

You take your mash runnings minus your pre-boil goal and that equals your sparge water amount. I always heat up more sparge water than I think I'll need in case I come up short on mash runnings.

Grain Bill

10 Lbs of American 2-Row (Upped it from 9 to 10 due to efficiency)
2 oz. Special B, 8 oz. Caramel 80L, 2 oz. Roasted Barley, Fuggle
and Hallertau hops

I will be doing a split-boil and have and idea. If I collect the runnings in two kettles then dump into a larger contain mix and distribute back to the kettles will this be the best way to handle this.

Do you have an iPhone ?
Go to the Apps Store and find Sparge Pal <Free and Handy>

Special Hops....That chart is the best Ive seen so far in breaking down the procedures.

Yeah Jay got that app and have been playing around with it. Do you
find it works well for you and is accurate?

bthorn9435 said:

Special Hops....That chart is the best Ive seen so far in breaking down the procedures.

Click to expand...

A guy in our brew club put it together. I found it extremely useful when I first went all grain.

Today is the day guys any last minute tips.

When vorlaufing, open the valve only a trickle, or it will not clear. Don't sweat the clarity too much. Then open it up full bore.

Double check the temp a few minutes after closing the MLT. Make sure you stir and stir and stir when mashing in.

Tip the MLT when draining is done to get out the most wort. This lets your first sparge rinse the grain more fully.

Check out dennybrew.com. A good one page description.

I think Sparge Pal is a superhandy app for brewday

Jay

I like brew 365 online for mash temps and volumes. Make sure to preheat your mashtun with water thats 10 degree hotter than your strike temp

Brewtarget brewtarget brewtarget!!!! I love it! Use it! You will love it too!!!

Oh yeah, and it's free software...so use it!!!!

bthorn9435 said:

I will be doing a split-boil and have and idea. If I collect the runnings in two kettles then dump into a larger contain mix and distribute back to the kettles will this be the best way to handle this.

Click to expand...

I have to do a split boil too. I collect all the runnings in my plastic bucket fermenter. To the top is 6.7 gal. I collect about 6.5 gal, then split between my pots for the boil. Time each pot separately, split the additions between them... Last batch I got about 6.5 gal wort and the boil off was only about a gal. So I have 5.5 in the fermenter right now. Sanitize the fermenter during the boil time. Works well for me.

Whats best software for determining sparge and strike water

My before boil gravity was 1.040 and my in the bucket gravity
before pitching yeast is 1.056. What should I do to correct this
should I top off with some water? Shouldn't it be 1.48-1.050. I am
brewing the Midwest Amber Ale All-Grain.

What was your final volume after the boil?

A touch over the 5 Gallon Mark.

How are you measuring volume? If you're using the marks on a ale pail, they often aren't accurate.

Either way, 1.056 is fine for an amber; maybe a little high, but I honestly wouldn't top off.

Do you mean it will be a little high in alcohol?

What was the temp of your samples when taking the readings? They should be 60 degrees.

75 Degrees

Ok here are the details.

10 LBS American 2-Row
8 Ounces Crystal 80
2 Ounces Roasted Malt
2 Ounces Special B

Mashed In at 157 after stirring. Panicked and didn't listen to my
uncle who was helping me and lost 3 degrees by opeing the lid. 30
minutes in sitting at 150 added touch of boiling water. Temp held at
153 for the duration. Cleared a couple of quarts then started the first
runnings. Man the first runnings appear black almost. Very sweet smelling
and tasting. Added sparge water stirred and let sit for 10 minutes. Cleared
and drained again. Second runnings appear much lighter. First running yielded
around 3 gallons, second runnings about 3.5. I really think they should call
this hobby All-Day and not All-Grain. Overall it was a very fast paced trying
day, no matter how much I planned and read I still felt like I was fumbling in the
dark through this first batch. All in all I had a blast brewing it and cannot wait until
she's complete and ready to taste.

Pre-Boil Gravity 1.040
Post-Boil Gravity 1.054

bthorn9435 said:

I really think they should call
this hobby All-Day and not All-Grain. Overall it was a very fast paced trying
day, no matter how much I planned and read I still felt like I was fumbling in the
dark through this first batch. All in all I had a blast brewing it and cannot wait until
she's complete and ready to taste.

Pre-Boil Gravity 1.040
Post-Boil Gravity 1.054

Click to expand...

Sounds like a success, so congrats! The first one or two all grain brews are a little tough, but they go way smoother and easier after that. You'll probably be able to brew an all grain batch with your eyes closed in under 5 hours before long.

I think Sparge Pal is a real handy Brew Day tool.

I have my iPhone all the time so it's a handy app.

Jay

Most of the software lists using a smaller amount for strike, is this because the first runnings are higher in sugar and the second runnings help equal out the batch? I did a 4gallon strike and 4gallon sparge.

Bthorn....sounds like you hit your marks.....I brewed my first all grain this past Sunday myself and posted a live update of my session.....see below.....probably similar to your day...


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/reporting-live-my-first-all-grain-batch-248346/

Primary Fermentaion should just be starting.
Are you planning on transfer to Carboy after a week of Primary ?

Jay

Fermentation was going this morning...pretty fast. I am using Nottingham on this one.
Jay I am going to do 2 weeks in primary then bottle. I have always had good results and
good beer this way.

Ok after recovering from the hectic brew day I have went back and
reviewed a few things. I also have a couple of questions.
It appears the my effeciency was around 65%. I thought I nailed
everything procedure wise. Going back through my notes it appears I may
have misunderstood a step. When I put in the sparge water it was at 173
and this brought my mash back to 154. I rested for 10 min and drained. I am
thinking now I should have had the water much hotter to get the bed up to
170. Is this correct thinking? I thought 154 was a good temp all the way through
and that getting above 170 was bad. Please advise.

bthorn9435 said:

Ok after recovering from the hectic brew day I have went back and
reviewed a few things. I also have a couple of questions.
It appears the my effeciency was around 65%. I thought I nailed
everything procedure wise. Going back through my notes it appears I may
have misunderstood a step. When I put in the sparge water it was at 173
and this brought my mash back to 154. I rested for 10 min and drained. I am
thinking now I should have had the water much hotter to get the bed up to
170. Is this correct thinking? I thought 154 was a good temp all the way through
and that getting above 170 was bad. Please advise.

Click to expand...

Technically most people either add enough boiling water before the sparge to bring the grain bed up to 168-170F (called a mash-out), or use much hotter sparge water to raise the grain bed to around 168-170F. This step is important for fly sparging, but has little to no effect on efficiency for batch spargers. I have a HERMS system, and I double batch sparge with the water that's been keeping the hex coil warm, which is usually only a couple degrees warmer than the mash temp. Temps above 170F combined with a high PH can extract tannins, but with the proper PH and temps below 170F it's not much of a concern.

IMO crush and proper stirring of the mash are two of the biggest factors effecting efficiency. It sounds like you did a single batch sparge, and splitting the sparge volume in half and doing a double batch sparge will probably increase your efficiency some. I would caution against getting caught up chasing higher efficiencies. At the homebrew level consistency is more important than efficiency, and 65% really isn't that bad.