Can you crush too fast with drill?

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jimangie1973

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Hello,

I'm using the Barley Crusher mill will a corded B&D drill. The drill will mow through the grain at high speed. I think it's spec'd up to 1350 RPM. My question is if running at too high a speed will actually created an unnecessary amount of husk dust and small debris?

Thanks,
Jim
 
Yes, you can definitely mill too fast with a drill and get excessive husk pulverization which can potentially lead to "off" characteristics in your brew.

I had been using my 1/2" variable speed drill for several batches and would have to simply use finger pressure to go as slow as I could, which I thought was slow enough. The crush was good; I increased about 5% efficiency from my lhbs; but the husk was more broken than my lhbs. I DID seems to get more grain coming through my false bottom too. No big deal and the beer came it good.

I decided to buy a dedicated 1/2" drill from Harbor Freight so I don't burn out my other drill. The new drill has a speed adjustment dial so I don't have to use pressure to find the sweet spot. After my first use, I realized how much better it was than my older drill. I was able to dial down to a very low RPM and simply pulled the trigger. It went slower than I was ever able to get my other drill to go. The crush was equally as well, and I got less flour and the husks were more intact.

Overall, I noticed a significant difference between the two drills and I can honestly say I did not expect to. I was just trying to save my other drill for work around the house.

The harbor freight drill is this one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-heavy-duty-spade-handle-drill-93632.html
and I used the 25% off coupon for a total of about $38. The handles are removable and can be placed on all sides.
 
Thanks a lot for the reply and information. That's what I was assuming regarding the high speed crush. I'm going to go out and get the drill you linked. ;)
 
Great, I don't think you'll be disappointed. Many other folks on this board have also used the same drill with success.

Cheers!
 
I've had trouble with setting the harbor freight drill to a slow speed and crushing the grains. Do you start the drill before you pour the grains into the hopper? I always try to set the drill with the button whole the hopper is full and seem to have to have the speed of the drill a lot higher then I need to. I'm going to give it a shot by starting the drill with an empty hopper then slowly pour the grain in.
 
m00se said:
I've had trouble with setting the harbor freight drill to a slow speed and crushing the grains. Do you start the drill before you pour the grains into the hopper? I always try to set the drill with the button whole the hopper is full and seem to have to have the speed of the drill a lot higher then I need to. I'm going to give it a shot by starting the drill with an empty hopper then slowly pour the grain in.
Click to expand...

Just to give you an idea of what I'm using:
I'm using a MM2 (6" rollers, 1.5" diameter, ~0.037" gap, no o-ring) and the aforementioned HF 1/2" heavy duty variable speed drill.

I have the drill set to the slowest speed (i.e. the speed adjuster won't turn any more slower). But I have occasionally used it at one notch above slowest speed also.

I fill the hopper 85% full, and then start the drill. It moves at a very slow speed (almost too slow), but one speed notch up produces slightly less intact husk. I prefer more intact husk because my MLT can drain really fast causing stuck sparges so the more intact the husks the less chance I have of a stuck sparge.

There should be nothing wrong with starting the drill first and then adding the grain. It may actually prolong the life of the drill since it won't ever have to start under load. I plan on mounting my mill, drill, to a fixture that will contain a switch for starting the preset drill. Once the mill is started, I'll add the grain - just like you said you're going to try.

I'll post a link to what I intend on building so you can see. It looks pretty sweet and hands-free. I intend on making it more compact/portable, but the idea is there.

Link: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/harborfreight-drill-grain-mill-337006/index2.html#post4198968

I'm hoping to use an outlet/switch combo so there is only one receptacle box.
 
stpug said:
Yes, you can definitely mill too fast with a drill and get excessive husk pulverization which can potentially lead to "off" characteristics in your brew.

I had been using my 1/2" variable speed drill for several batches and would have to simply use finger pressure to go as slow as I could, which I thought was slow enough. The crush was good; I increased about 5% efficiency from my lhbs; but the husk was more broken than my lhbs. I DID seems to get more grain coming through my false bottom too. No big deal and the beer came it good.

I decided to buy a dedicated 1/2" drill from Harbor Freight so I don't burn out my other drill. The new drill has a speed adjustment dial so I don't have to use pressure to find the sweet spot. After my first use, I realized how much better it was than my older drill. I was able to dial down to a very low RPM and simply pulled the trigger. It went slower than I was ever able to get my other drill to go. The crush was equally as well, and I got less flour and the husks were more intact.

Overall, I noticed a significant difference between the two drills and I can honestly say I did not expect to. I was just trying to save my other drill for work around the house.

The harbor freight drill is this one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-heavy-duty-spade-handle-drill-93632.html
and I used the 25% off coupon for a total of about $38. The handles are removable and can be placed on all sides.
Click to expand...


Thanks. I was getting ready to return my Harbor Freight drill, and I think I'll give this one a shot.

I purchased a 1/2" dedicated mill drill from them, but it's sucked. Super powerful, but the chuck doesnt stay tight and its rounding off the input shaft on my Monster Mill.
 
riored4v said:
Thanks. I was getting ready to return my Harbor Freight drill, and I think I'll give this one a shot.

I purchased a 1/2" dedicated mill drill from them, but it's sucked. Super powerful, but the chuck doesnt stay tight and its rounding off the input shaft on my Monster Mill.
Click to expand...

Don't bother. These bait and switch scammers substituted Item 60436 with no speed knob, or locking speed feature at the same price as the 93632. Same price. No mention of the substitution until shipment.

I'm Pissed, these scammers at Harbor Freight suck. Good luck getting a real person on the phone too.
 
I did notice a difference in the quality of crush when using my barley crusher with a fast grind . I think it is much better to grind it at a slower pace just above the point where the drill is not chugging and the mill is not jerking do to to slow movement .
Slow and easy .

and other people , buy a decent drill not a POS from harbor Freight or Norther Tool . Ryobi , Milwaukee etc . . . 20 dollar drill are fine if you want to drill a few holes but if you buy one every time it dies you will spend a lot of money . One good drill will last many hours of use .
 
bethebrew said:
Don't bother. These bait and switch scammers substituted Item 60436 with no speed knob, or locking speed feature at the same price as the 93632. Same price. No mention of the substitution until shipment.

I'm Pissed, these scammers at Harbor Freight suck. Good luck getting a real person on the phone too.
Click to expand...

That's NOT okay. If it's not what you paid for then you should not pay for it. I'd deal with your credit card company or paypal or whoever on this one. That is lame. You might get your money back AND get to keep the drill. :D

I actually have a HF about 3 miles from my house so I went there and picked it off the shelf. The speed control is what really makes it so easy to use. But know, the speed control is simply some variable depth plastic piece that keep the trigger from depressing more. The same can probably be accomplished with a small screw through a spot on the trigger that would hit the body/frame/housing.
 
MarcusKillion said:
I did notice a difference in the quality of crush when using my barley crusher with a fast grind . I think it is much better to grind it at a slower pace just above the point where the drill is not chugging and the mill is not jerking do to to slow movement .
Slow and easy .

and other people , buy a decent drill not a POS from harbor Freight or Norther Tool . Ryobi , Milwaukee etc . . . 20 dollar drill are fine if you want to drill a few holes but if you buy one every time it dies you will spend a lot of money . One good drill will last many hours of use .
Click to expand...

I have only put about 50 lbs of grain through my HF but it's working fine. The total cost for this drill was ~$38 which isn't bad for a 1/2" with the useful features it has. If it dies soon, I won't buy it again. If it lasts for years then I'd buy it again. I would hate to fork up the cash for a Milwaukee only to have it burn out.

Milling grain is tough on motors so it's not worth investing a lot unless you know the motor was made for that specific purpose and is meant to handle the load, in which case I'd be looking at a single phase gear motor. I spent a fair amount of time trying to find one for a reasonable price (under the cost I paid for the MM2). It seemed that ebay was the way to go but it would be a matter of being there at the right time.
 
It is tough on the motor for sure . A 1/2 inch from HF might work a while . I bought a 20 dollar drill / flashlight from them and it drilled a few holes before it died .As long as the thing does not have the plastic gears they are famous for sporting in their china crap then it might be okay .
I was thinking of using a motor from a computer or something . i used to have some that put out good torque and ran slow but tossed them all . I worked at a place that sold surplus and scrap and got a lot of stuff there .
I will be quite sad if my Milwaukee dies .
 
jimangie1973 said:
This conversation has steered me away from the HF model... What's the consensus on this one:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...026817?N=c27fZzvZ1z0wjscZ1z141kh#.UnoghhDOQwA

I'm brewing this weekend so this serious decision needs to be made. :confused::)
Click to expand...

Probably would last you a long time, but the guts in milwaukee tools have been made in china since the late 80's so don't buy it thinking you're buying american.

If you are shopping Home Depot check on Rigid tools. Unless policy has changed ALL rigid tools are guaranteed for life. Do ask though as policies have a way of changing without notice.
 
stpug said:
That's NOT okay. If it's not what you paid for then you should not pay for it. I'd deal with your credit card company or paypal or whoever on this one. That is lame. You might get your money back AND get to keep the drill. :D

I actually have a HF about 3 miles from my house so I went there and picked it off the shelf. The speed control is what really makes it so easy to use. But know, the speed control is simply some variable depth plastic piece that keep the trigger from depressing more. The same can probably be accomplished with a small screw through a spot on the trigger that would hit the body/frame/housing.
Click to expand...

The model I looked at appeared to have a locking button on the side of the handle that would hold speed where you set it. You could adjust with the variable button, then push the button and it stayed there.

Anyway, I have decided to return it, of course will have to hassle around with that BS of returning it and getting credit from my already charged card. Too hard to deal with the HF folks on the phone.

Sticking with my DeWalt 1/2" one and doing it by hand.
 
I mill with an old Black and Decker drill I bought second-hand off Kijiji for $20. It's a plug-in model (no battery) and has no speed adjustment. I just hold the trigger down and it mows through the grain at full speed. I've not noticed any adverse affects or flavours in the resulting beer, though admittedly my efficiency is nothing to brag about (55-60%).
 
jimangie1973 said:
This conversation has steered me away from the HF model... What's the consensus on this one:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...026817?N=c27fZzvZ1z0wjscZ1z141kh#.UnoghhDOQwA

I'm brewing this weekend so this serious decision needs to be made. :confused::)
Click to expand...

that is what I was thinking of buying and then went with the smaller 3/8 in a kit since I need a regular drill around here . how ever after grinding I knew it was going to wear it out since it is not made for that big strain on the motor and it does get warm .

I would say that 1/2" milwaukee is going to be good for a long time grinding grain .
 
kombat said:
I mill with an old Black and Decker drill I bought second-hand off Kijiji for $20. It's a plug-in model (no battery) and has no speed adjustment. I just hold the trigger down and it mows through the grain at full speed. I've not noticed any adverse affects or flavours in the resulting beer, though admittedly my efficiency is nothing to brag about (55-60%).
Click to expand...

not bad .Old electric BD usually only good for about 12 hours of use I think . They used to put the life expectancy in the specs under something about hours of life . the 3/8 were 12 or 13 I think . Which is a lot of drilling really . 1 minute to grind some grain would take a while to add up to 12 hours . I still have one I bought decades ago and it works just fine .
 
stpug said:
Yes, you can definitely mill too fast with a drill and get excessive husk pulverization which can potentially lead to "off" characteristics in your brew.
Click to expand...

Do you have any references for this comment? Pretty sure on the Brew Strong pod cast they couldn't come to a consensus if this was true or not.
 
BreezyBrew said:
Do you have any references for this comment? Pretty sure on the Brew Strong pod cast they couldn't come to a consensus if this was true or not.
Click to expand...

Sorry, no references, just experience with the husk pulverization at higher speeds.

Regarding the potential "off" characteristics: Again, no reference, just going by what I've read since I've not experienced this one firsthand. There would certainly be variables that would play into this like temperatures and pH.
 
Like stpug said, you get lots of husk pulverized if you run it too fast. Try it out and you'll see pretty quick. If your rollers are connected (most mills don't connect them) then you'd probably get less pulverization from high speeds.

In general, you want to run your mill just barely above stalling speed of the motor.
 
Well, I would if I could, but my drill just has one speed: On. Is there any kind of step-down gearing or pulley system that would work with a Barley Crusher? What are other people using?
 
Doesn't make a difference. A kagillion, double crushing, flour making, BIABers can't be wrong.

:)
 
kombat said:
Well, I would if I could, but my drill just has one speed: On. Is there any kind of step-down gearing or pulley system that would work with a Barley Crusher? What are other people using?
Click to expand...

Everything from high-end gear motors all the way down to hand cranks :D. There are lots of options and it only comes down to money. I was using a 1/2" variable speed skilsaw drill and it was working but getting a slow speed was hard since it's low end was very sensitive to finger pressure, AND I didn't want to burn this drill out since it's my go-to corded drill. I've since switched to a 1/2" harbor freight variable speed drill with pressure adjuster (i.e. speed control). At it's lowest setting it is just above motor stalling, one notch up and you're still very slow. I like the lowest setting but worry that it's more wear on the motor than just one notch up. The HF drill cost me ~$38 (using a 25% off coupon) since I have a store fairly close by.
 
Im using my 10 year old Ryobi 2 speed drill on the low speed setting, works perfect.
 
You could make a permanent mounting with a separate electric motor and pulleys. Last forever. Adjust the speed with the pulley sizes. Craigslist occasionally has electric motors, recently a 1/2hp (8 amps at 120v) for $20.
 
Epimetheus said:
You could make a permanent mounting with a separate electric motor and pulleys. Last forever. Adjust the speed with the pulley sizes. Craigslist occasionally has electric motors, recently a 1/2hp (8 amps at 120v) for $20.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but where do you get the pulleys and how do you connect things permanently to the shaft of the grain mill?
 
From my experience there is no issues with RPM speeds that high. I have a 3 roller monster mill that is belt driven from a table saw motor... which probably runs well north of 3,500 RPM and I get a beautiful crush. I've never noticed the husks being too ripped apart and I don't even condition my grain any more (something I used to do religiously)... nor have I ever noticed any off-flavors.
 

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