AG recipes taste the same...please advise

Well,
I have tried this AG thing a few times now (about 5). My last two batches, different recipes, both taste the same...almost like a grainy cereal taste. I mash in 163 degree water so that my 9lbs of grain are mashing at 155 for 60 mins. After collecting my first runnings (about 3.0 gals of my 3.5 gals of water) I sparge with 170 degree water. I slowly pour in and let sit for 15 mins were I then collect my other 2.5 gals for my 5.5 gal total. After fermentation and bottling my beer tastes like cereal. I know this is very vague but I have no hydrometer readings and my HBS suggested a larger grain bill say 9.0 lbs of 2-row and then specialty (about 11 lbs total). Could my problem be that I am collecting nothing more than watered down grains by the time I hit 3 gals? I'm using the 1.5 qts/1lb grain ratio....
Ideas?

You didnt boil it....hehehe

Do you boil vigorously for 60min? Are your hops fresh? What kind of yeast, grains, etc. Do you cool quickly?

How long to you let your beers ferment/bottle condition?

We did answer Lynwitte's question...If you are drinking any of the 8 batches you brewed in the last six weeks they are to young, you need to let them age, that is why they taste "grainy" they are still young and green.They will get better when they have been bottle conditioning for 3 weeks to a month, if not more.

Pilot, if you are going to brew Ag, you really need to use your hydrometer, it will help you read your beers, and know how much conversion you got based on your recipe....You'll be able to tell from your pre-boil gravity reading whether or not you collected too much or not enough wort....With extract batches it's not important, but there are too many variables in AG, so using tools will help you.

It will help if you give us your recipe....

from your post it sounds like you are pitching yeast and fermenting the 5.5 gallons from the sparge without a boil?
i hope not, but if so you should read:
www.howtobrew.com
before your next try

Sorry all,
I do boil for the full 60 mins. My recipes were:
8.5lbs 2-row
.5lbs caramel 60L
1 oz Hallatauer (60 mins)
.5oz Cascade (10 mins)
.5oz Cascade (2 mins)
Wyeast 1056

When I used extract w/ specialty grains I would ferment 1 week, secondary 2 weeks, keg 2 weeks then drink and everything was fine. The only difference here is that I went to AG. As for the hydrometer, normally I have one but mine broke this week (picking one up tomorrow for Sundays batch). When should I stop collecting 1.010? If that is the case I would only have 3 - 3.5 gals of wort. So do I need more grain for more sugar?

Grainy is really husk. Possibly due to a poor crush and/or poor sparging.

Try crash cooling the beer and keeping it cold for 4-6 weeks.

If you are down to 1.010 with only 3-3.5 gallons of wort, there is something seriously wrong with your mashing process. I do a two step batch sparge and my third runnings are always in the 1.015-1.025 range. That's for a boil volume of 6.5 gallons.

sounds like a poor crush like david 42 said.
from 9 lbs of grain i always collect 30 litres before my gravity gets below 1.010.
this boils down to 20-23 litres(5 to 51/2 gallons) to go to the fermenter

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. For my sparge I drain my first runnings then I pour in the 170 degree water to stop the enzyme action. What should I do at this point? Let the 3.5 gals sit for 15 mins. It always looks much more clear than my first runnings.

PilotBMP said:

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. For my sparge I drain my first runnings then I pour in the 170 degree water to stop the enzyme action. What should I do at this point? Let the 3.5 gals sit for 15 mins. It always looks much more clear than my first runnings.

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So, you are batch sparging? Your pour in the water after you drain your mash runnings, and then stir well, let it sit for 15 minutes, and then drain? This is after your mash, when you mash with 1.5 quarts of grain. So, in your example, you added 13.5 quarts of water ((3.375 gallons) and mashed with that. Then you drained off approx 3 gallons (that seems like alot- usually grain absorbs more), and added the sparge water of 3.5 gallons? That should not be oversparging at all- you should easily be able to do that make without getting below 1.010.

I'm sorry to be repetitive, I just want to make sure I understand.

You are correct. My second runnings look like a clear/VERY light hay color. This next batch on Sunday I will have hydrometer readings for you so I know exactly what I am catching from my sparge.

PilotBMP said:

You are correct. My second runnings look like a clear/VERY light hay color. This next batch on Sunday I will have hydrometer readings for you so I know exactly what I am catching from my sparge.

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What about your hops? Are you using fresh-ish hops? Or older hops? maybe your hops aren't giving you enoug flavor.

Could you post the second, same-tasting recipe, so we can see what the differences should be, and why you're getting the same flavor?

My hops are fresh (and expensive these days...). As for my second recipe:

7 lbs 2-row
.5 lbs Caramel 60L
.5 lbs Crushed Wheat
.25 lbs Biscuit
1 oz Northern Brewer (60 mins)
1 oz Fuggle (15 mins)
.5 oz Fuggle (Flame out)
Wyeast America Ale II

Do you vorlauf?

brrman said:

Do you vorlauf?

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That's a big step. I usually recirculate 64ounces myself.