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Old 10-31-2012, 04:52 PM   #1
Rob1219
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Default 1st AG recipe from scratch troubleshooting Black RyePA

I've have only brewed 3 AG before this will be my 4th. I love to come up with my own recipes. Other than drinking it, it's my fave part of brewing.
BUT with extract brewing it is alot easier to do b/c there are so many less variables to consider and there is less room for error.
SO, since this is my first recipe completely from scratch I am looking for comments about potential problems with the recipe more than anything, but comments about style or taste, etc. are welcome as well.
THANKS in advance!!
System: NB AG Deluxe 5 gal (rubbermaid 5.5 gal cooler, false bottom, fly sparge capable)
RECIPE:
BLACK RyePA
9 lb crushed Rahr 2-Row Pale Malt (69.2% of grain bill)
2 lb crushed Weyermann Rye Malt (15.3% of grain bill)
1 lb crushed Weyermann Chocolate Rye (7.7% of grain bill)
.5 lb Flaked Rye (3.9% of grain bill)
.5 lb crushed Belgian Debittered Black Malt (3.9% of grain bill)

2 oz Cascade Bittering
2 oz Cascade Flavoring
1 oz Centennial Flavoring
1 oz Simcoe or Australian Stella or Zythos Flavoring/Aroma
2 oz Cascade (whole cone/leaf or pellet) Dry Hopping
1 oz Citra (whole cone/leaf or pellet) Dry Hopping

1 tsp Irish Moss

White Labs 001- California Ale or Safale US-05

Strike water of 168° F (if grain temp is lower than room temp), using 4.25 gal or 17 qt, and added 1 gal at a time, stirring in between additions

Mash @ 152° F for 90 min

Fly Sparge @ 175° F, using 4.5 gal of sparge water; recirculate at beginning of sparge, finish sparge after wort becomes clear (longer sparge = higher efficiency, BE PATIENT!!).

Target yield of 6 gal after sparging

90 min wort boil, start hop boil after 45 min

45 min bittering hop boil (2 oz of Cascade)

15 min flavor hop boil (2 oz Cascade), with a teaspoon Irish Moss

5 min flavor/aroma hop partial boil, cut heat source before adding (1 oz Centennial and 1 oz Simcoe/Australian Stella/Zythos)

Target final yield of 5.5 gal, with an O.G. of ~1.055-1.070 (the higher the better), ~60 IBUs, ~30 SRM (higher is fine, should be black. hints of other colors, i.e. red, brown, etc., is fine also)

Dry hop with 2 oz Cascade (and maybe 1 oz Citra) for as long as desired or until clarity is achieved, during secondary fermentation (could dry hop in the keg using a bag of whole cone/leaf instead/also)

Target F.G. of ~1.015-1.017 (the lower the better, as long as it’s over 1.010!!), ~ABV of 5-7%

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Old 10-31-2012, 05:03 PM   #2
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I'd probably bitter with something other than cascade.

Move your bittering addition to 60 mi.

Ive never used chocolate rye, so cant comment on that. Carafa special is a typical ingredient in black IPA's, you may want to consider it.

Id say in general a good start that needs a little tweaking.

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Old 10-31-2012, 05:06 PM   #3
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Thanks for the advice!

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Old 10-31-2012, 05:17 PM   #4
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A few small things that came to mind:

1) I've never mashed for more than 60 minutes, and have read here that it isn't necessary to go longer.
2) Why do you want to boil for 90 minutes if you aren't adding hops until the 45 min mark?
3) I agree with Xpertskir that something other than Cascade for bittering and moving it to 60 min would be a good idea.

I am certainly not a pro, but just my 2 cents. Good luck!

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Old 10-31-2012, 05:25 PM   #5
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I've heard that increased mash time(I guess b/c it gives starches longer to break down to sugars) as well as increased boil time (I guess b/c of decrease in batch yeild) can raise effciency. Since my grain bill is limited by the size of my equipment and I don't know my brewhouse efficiency, all the efficiency I can get is needed to reach my desired ABV.

As for the hop schedule are the suggestions to use a hop other than Cascade and a longer boil b/c the lower alpha content of cascade, or b/c of the flavor produced? I really like the grapefruit quality of cascade. Does this only come out in flavor/aroma boil or dry hopping?

I've also heard a suggested IBU range is to take the last two digits of the OG and make that the target IBU (I guess before any dry hopping?). Ex.- my target OG is 1.058 (based on 70% efficiency, not sure my bewhouse efficiency) so 58 IBUs

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Old 10-31-2012, 05:27 PM   #6
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If you are targeting a pre-boil volume of 6 gallons and boiling for 90 minutes there is no way you will get 5.5 gallons in the primary. Assuming boil off of 1 gallon per hour you have to expect a loss of 1.5 gallons minimum-something is not right.

My system requires 9 gallon pre-boil to achieve 6.25 gallon batch and this account for boil off and all losses as an example.

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Old 10-31-2012, 05:34 PM   #7
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That's great info! I didn't use a calculation for boil off, only IBU, Gravities, SRM, etc. I can only fit 6.5 gal in my kettle, so I guess the yeild will be closer to 5 gal. But that should also raise my OG, which in this case is a good thing.

Thanks!

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Old 10-31-2012, 05:47 PM   #8
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Usually the distributors of hops will provide a description and purpose of each hop, whether it is bittering, aroma, or dual-purpose. I've never seen a company describe the Cascade variety as bittering, or even dual purpose, always aroma/flavor. I typically use higher AA hops like Columbus for my bittering additions.

I'm a bit confused by this part of your recipe: "90 min wort boil, start hop boil after 45 min".

Are you boiling for 90 min or 45? From my experience, the only reason to boil for 90 minutes would be if you were adding hops at the 90 min mark.

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Old 10-31-2012, 06:15 PM   #9
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I meant I would boil the wort for 45 min, then start adding hops, so the total boil time would be 90 min, but the hops would only boil for 45. This gives higher efficiency* (b/c of higher OG), without the continued release of alpha acids from longer hop boil time.

*The increased boil time supposedly will increase effciency, I guess b/c of decrease in batch yeild. Just using logic here: longer boil=less water -> less water=higher sugar to water ratio -> higher sugar to water ratio=higher OG, thus higher efficiency.

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Old 10-31-2012, 06:38 PM   #10
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I think I understand now. Since your equipment is not capable of handling more grain, you are boiling down your wort to make it more concentrated. Makes sense. Not necessarily more "efficient", but you yield a higher efficiency with the end result.

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