Topping up ?'s

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Tnoodle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
306
Reaction score
24
Location
Tulsa
I have a 1 gallon batch of blueberry melomel that has dropped clear and is sitting on a bed of blueberry sediment. It is time to rack for bulk aging but I don't know what I should top up with. I don't want to use water because I don't want to water down the flavors. What should I do? Should I just bottle it and age in the bottle? This will be the 3rd time it has been moved, every other time I racked onto fresh blueberry juice. It has been 2 months since the picture.

image-648955401.jpg
 
well if you add more blueberry juice it will most likely cloud your melomel and then drop more sediment creating a vicious cycle. I personally dont worry about headspace while its still saturated with C02, as it will degas naturally and create a blanket of C02( this is a highly debated subject, use your own judgement).
I would rack it to another 1 gallon jug and put it under airlock. If you are worried about head space you could use marbles for displacement. I dont recommend bottling yet, as even "clear" meads/wines will continue to drop sediment for some time.
 
Thank you, I think I'll just rack it again and pray it is still naturally degassing. I don't have any marbles anymore.
 
well if you add more blueberry juice it will most likely cloud your melomel and then drop more sediment creating a vicious cycle.
Erm ? No, actually not, but that's depending on a few things. If it's been stabilised correctly, then it should be fine with some extra blueberry juice.
I personally dont worry about headspace while its still saturated with C02, as it will degas naturally and create a blanket of C02( this is a highly debated subject, use your own judgement).
Again, that'd be taking some presumptions a bit far. It depends on the storage temperature as to how much CO2 is actually retained in the brew. If you took a few different types of "normal" (commercial) wine, open the bottle and then used a vacuvin, you'd find varying levels of CO2 coming out of them/it. It would appear that there's no general consensus as to how much CO2 comes out naturally, or whether it's actually necessary to de-gas or not. The only guaranteed way of getting a protective blanket of CO2 is to apply it artificially - And yes, that does only apply to batches in the clearing/storage stage as we're all aware that during the ferment phase that the CO2 is naturally purged from the wine/mead, but it's also fair to point out that the only CO2 coming out is probably because the brew is passed it's saturation stage.
I would rack it to another 1 gallon jug and put it under airlock. If you are worried about head space you could use marbles for displacement. I dont recommend bottling yet, as even "clear" meads/wines will continue to drop sediment for some time.
Yes, this is a good idea, though some care needs to be highlighted.

It's easy to sanitise (hell, even sterilise) glass marbles. But great care needs to be taken when putting them into the brew if the container is made of glass. As the glass can crack/break easily if the marbles are just dropped into it.

The reason why it's a good idea, is because there's nothing being added that can change the actual liquid content i.e. no reduction in %ABV, colour, mouth feel/body, etc etc.

As for the thing about dropping sediment, even after the brew being apparently clear. Spot on there. I've got a case of a 2004 Australian Syrah. It's a nice, slightly tannic, deeply coloured, smooth red. Which of course, would have been clear when bottled, yet every time I open one, it surprises me just how much additional sediment has dropped to the bottom of the bottle.......

regards

fatbloke
 
I'm no expert on all this yet, but I had a similar vicious cycle with my melon melomel, melon juice has far too much pulp to keep adding it and on my last racking and top up with juice I ended up with a good 2 or more inches of sediment at the bottom. (it filled a whole wine bottle).

Clearly, I decided that was too much to waste and put it in a bottle with a vacuvin stopper on top of it. I did during this time top up with water on the main lot, but I now regret this.

I would recommend putting the trub in a bottle and cold crashing it / pouring off the clear stuff a couple of times, with the main lot under a vacuum (vacuvin in a bubble airlock can work well). Once it wont settle any more I poured it through a fine nylon bag a couple of times before adding it back in with the rest of it. along with some fining agents to make the sediment a bit heavier. Mine has now settled nicely with a tiny layer at the bottom so will be bottled next week.
 
Erm ? No, actually not, but that's depending on a few things. If it's been stabilised correctly, then it should be fine with some extra blueberry juice.
I guess you guys have clearer juice in Southern UK then whats in the Southern US.
Again, that'd be taking some presumptions .......
I gave proper warning of it being debatable, and told him to use his judgement since this is his wine not mine. Already plenty of threads about this, so let's not going there again.
It's easy to sanitise (hell, even sterilise) glass marbles. But great care needs to be taken when putting them into the brew if the container is made of glass. As the glass can crack/break easily if the marbles are just dropped into it.
assumed C.F.S

Fatbloke, what course of action do you recommend?
 
Thanks for the info, I think I will use one of my small Co2 tanks to add it artificially. That seems to be the safest bet.
 
I guess you guys have clearer juice in Southern UK then whats in the Southern US.
Nothing of the sort my friend. The clarity of the juice is entirely dependant on how the fruit is "extracted" i.e. if it's just blitzed, or even frozen/defrosted and then pressed, there's a possibility of it being hazy or at least containing material that will settle out of solution.

The very nature of blueberries (and other red/black fruit), is that if they're heat treated, it seems to improve the fruitiness and colour of the resulting juice - whereby, it can be treated with pectolase, too handle any possible pectin issue(s), and if need be, filtered prior to adding it. Though it depends on what Tnoodle is aiming for - because the juice can also be sweetened if necessary, sediments and hazes from the continual topping off process are usually associated with unstabilised product, whereby the small amount of yeast cells transferred during rackings, have more sugars to munch on, whereas the possible drop out of pigmentation particles is a possibility with any types/colours of meads (and wines). That's usually sorted with filtration, prior to bottling.
I gave proper warning of it being debatable, and told him to use his judgement since this is his wine not mine. Already plenty of threads about this, so let's not going there again.
I was hoping that I was clear enough with the point(s) I raised, to explain the difference between the content of CO2 in any head space during ferment (high levels) and that of a finished ferment (low/lower). Plus any air space is best kept to a minimum, to reduce the presence of oxygen in the air - and yes, the actual make up of the gas in the airspace will vary both with ambient air pressure and temperature i.e. you notice the "tang" of CO2/carbonic acid more with warm drinks than you do with chilled ones.

Hence, not so much a debate thing, but (hopefully) more of a clarification of the point.
Fatbloke, what course of action do you recommend?
I'd probably just add some more juice, that's been clarified as much as possible before adding. Make sure about stabilisation too. That way, Tnoodle would retain the beautiful colour and probably a good level of fruitiness in the flavour (it might even help if there's any viscosity/mouth feel issues). Then cold crash and filter it to 1 micron.

That way, it should help even with minimal pigment drop out, over time. Plus it then depends on whether Tnoodle wants to age it in the bottle or bulk - I prefer bulk.....

regards

fatbloke

p.s. and my earlier post wasn't supposed to sound like I was being confrontational (I hoped it didn't come across like that), but I obviously failed.

I was trying (badly) just to highlight points to help with the retention of colour/flavour with the brew.

Text/typing like this, doesn't always convey the sentiment in which the comment/advice/guidance if offered. Of course, any offence is profoundly regretted.....
 
Thanks for the info, I think I will use one of my small Co2 tanks to add it artificially. That seems to be the safest bet.
If you're happy with the taste, colour, clarity and viscosity/mouth feel, then I suspect you're spot on there.

Or you could just bottle it to minimise the air space between the liquid and cork/cap/stopper and either use a smaller bottle or just enjoy the last bit......

Good luck with it, as it's a beautiful colour..... I hope the taste matches that....

regards

fatbloke
 
Then cold crash and filter it to 1 micron.
not trying to start a arugment with you fatbloke, but doesn't filtering strip flavors, and color?
I'm a bit of a minimalist and traditionalist. I prefer to let time, nature, and patience do its course when it comes to mead and wine making.
As far as the head space debate, I believe that most problems with head space and oxidation truly stem from over racking, sampling, testing, pouring test samples back into the batch and/or just general opening of the secondary. If people would learn to put the airlock on, and walk away only occasionally checking to make sure the airlock has plenty of fluid. And do all of of the sampling, testing, etc when they rack, and only rack when absolutely necessary the risk of oxidation and infections become minimal.
After this racking, I dont really foresee Tnoodle needing to rack until about 2-3 weeks out from bottling, as its already "clear". So in my opinion, there is no reason that airlock should come off in the next 6+ months. I do like the purging with C02 idea, I just dont have the equipment for it.
 
I plan on using a Co2 tank that I have for my paintball markers with a valve and tubing that I picked up from lowes. I have done it a few times on my 5 gallon batches of wine, just not on a 1 gallon batch. The juice I have been using has been extracted with a steam juicer and the berries are from my plants in the back yard. I normally filter my juice through a mesh bag and then a coffee filter, but there has been sediment every time.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top