Biab ph

Has anyone tested their mash PH with some of these brewing calculators verses a PH meter? Are they pretty close in comparison?

I brew full volume 2.5 gal BIAB and was kind a wondering how PH is effected in such a large water to grain mash ratio? I have been following Brewers Friend water calculators and just recently started to add a little lactic acid to get my PH down to 5.3- 5.5 but have no meter to get actual reading.

I started brewing AG full volume BIAB and had pH issues. I measure pH every 15 minutes during mash although will soon just measure once. Bru'n water works well for me. If you did not have water tested and don't have a meter then I think you could get by with RO water and using bru'n. I don't believe many will recommend doing that but you could. Hannah pH checker is only like $30 on amazon. I would also get the storage and testing solutions.


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Using RO water you can simply build water like this:
Malty/balanced: 1tsp CaSO4, 1tsp CaCl
Hoppy: 2tsp CaSO4, 1tsp CaCl
I do a bit more specific but plenty of recipes in zymurgy are similar. Add those minerals to bru'n with your grain bill then increase lactic until it's in your range.


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The two times I've used Bru'n Water and measured my pH, one was 0.11 pH unit low and one was 0.17 units too high. I target 5.40 mash pH. So it will get you in the range, but it may not be perfect.

Keep in mind the software is only as good as the data you feed into it. So your water report numbers need to be accurate. That why I would use RO, you won't be perfect but using the numbers already in the program will be close for RO.


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bigdongsr94 said:

Keep in mind the software is only as good as the data you feed into it. So your water report numbers need to be accurate. That why I would use RO, you won't be perfect but using the numbers already in the program will be close for RO.


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Not sure if that was just a general statement or directed at me, but I did just have my water tested right before one of those measurements. With that said, I wasn't really complaining that the sheet was off. I realize there will be some error in the estimate and measurement and many things can change it. I'm grateful the spreadsheet gets me closer than me just winging it.

Thanks for the replys. I did have my water tested and it is very soft (water softener) and mineral content is very low. I use to just wing it and add a little calcium chloride or gypsum but after looking into the different brewing water software it looks like my PH was a little high around 5.7- 5.9. A little bit of acid brings it down to a better range. I guess im just curious if these brewing softwares are accurate or close enough without the extra cost and hassle of a PH meter.

My beers usually turn out great but there's always room for improvement. I've been into Lagers lately and trying different things to get the cleanest crisp taste.

wobdee said:

I did have my water tested and it is very soft (water softener) and mineral content is very low.

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Did you mean you have soft water or that your water is soft because of using a (salt based) water softener?

The brewing water calculators haven't worked well for me. For Brew in a Bag I measure the pH and adjust with lactic acid. The equation is on this blog post:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2012/10/mash-ph.html

1MadScientist said:

Did you mean you have soft water or that your water is soft because of using a (salt based) water softener?

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Soft because I'm using a water softener. Although the water is pretty soft around here anyways, I think the main reason for the water softener is to get rid of the iron.

You might want to read more about using water from a water softener. Run this through google, "water softener for brewing" to be informed.

Most everyone will tell you not to use softened water since it adds sodium to your water. Granted... As someone with a water softener I can tell you I have done it and I did not taste anything off with the batch, however that was alos before I understood my water and adjusted it accordingly. Since I have been adjusting my beers are better.

On the BIAB PH issue, I have done reading on this site and honestly if you search on BIAB PH you will find a lot of good info from some of the water gurus. The gist is that water volume does not make a huge impact because of the way alkalinity scales I believe. (Someone more knowledgeable can provide a better explanation. I would ask on the Brew Science forum.) Also, I am not discounting Woodland brews results as he has far more experienced than I am. (actually going to check that out for myself next.)

hmm, interesting, so what level of sodium is bad? This is my water report from Wards. I didnt think the sodium level would be a problem, I'll have to look into it further, thanks.

PH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) 83 ppm
Sodium, NA 31
Potassium, K <1
Calcium, CA <1
Magnesium, Mg <1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 <1
Nitrate, NO3-N <0.1 (Safe)
Sulfate, SO4-S 2
Chloride, CI 4
Carbonate, CO3 <1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 66
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 54

I use Brewer's Friend's (BF) water calculator which I find works quite well. I have downloaded my water values from our local water district, and this seems to help. The main factors I adjust for are the Cl-/SO4- balance (our water is very high in sulfates), and the alkalinity (which is also quite high).

BF is nice because it automatically pulls the grain bill from a particular recipe I'm planning to brew, and will provide an estimate of the mash pH. I can adjust the mash pH by adding acid, and it will provide a volume or weight for a specified acid. I use 85% phosphoric acid, and usually need about 7-10 ml for an 11 gallon batch (typically 14.5 gallons of strike water). This of course depends on how much crystal and other roasted malts are in the recipe, as these lower the pH on their own. I had previously tried this using pH5.2 buffer, but this rarely worked properly. I usually aim for around 5.3, which is a good compromise for maximal alpha and beta amylase activities. Using my Hanna pH pen (after proper calibration using pH 7.0 and 4.0 buffers), I have gotten quite close to 5.3 using the phosphoric acid addition to the strike water.

I also add CaCl2 to raise the Cl-/SO4- ratio for a more balanced hop flavor profile. This is not needed so much with English style beers (stouts and browns), but is definitely important for lighter styles (lagers, hefeweizen, etc).

So, my process is rather simple. Calculate the additions in BF, then run tap water through a carbon filter (to eliminate chlorine/chloramine), add CaCl2 and phosphoric acid as calculated, and proceed. I take a pH measurement from the same mash sample I use to calculate the mash gravity. So far, it seems to be working well.

Just recently registered with BF, lots of good info. I'm going to follow their water calc for my next Pils and see what happens.

wobdee said:

Just recently registered with BF, lots of good info. I'm going to follow their water calc for my next Pils and see what happens.

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Yeah, I really like the BF water calculator (and tons of other things about it!). A brew buddy of mine has gotten very serious about brewing water. He read the Palmer book on the subject and has been tweaking his water using Bru'n Water. He uses a lab grade pH meter, and has had very good success with getting the appropriate mash pH. When we brewed on my BIAB rig last time, we did a comparison between the Bru'n Water calcs and those on BF. They were pretty close overall. For that brew, we were aiming for pH 5.3, and I ended up measuring the mash pH at 5.27, which is easily within the margin of error for my pH pen.

This is some info from my last 2 brews (since I got a replacement sensor for my pH meter). I use RO water from the Coop and build from there.
Todays brew was a sweet stout recipe I am working on. Bru'n water predicted a room temp mash pH of 5.52, Brewer's friend predicted 5.48 and EZ water predicted 5.58. I took one sample at the end of boil and got 5.47.
My last batch was a pale ale. Bru'n water predicted 5.35, Brewer's friend predicted 5.33 and EZ water predicted 5.49. I took one sample at 47 minutes and got 5.34.

I use Bru'n Water for my chemistry and check the pH with a meter. The pH has always been within +/- 0.1, which is fine with me. I do AG BIAB but I don't think the method of mashing effects pH. I primarily use acid malt to get to my pH. One time I had to adjust a bit with lactic acid but otherwise the acid malt did a fine job. You should also definitely check out the Water Chemistry Primer on this website. It is super simple and super useful.

Until I started adjusting for my water, I always ended up at the dreaded 1.020. I typically make 1.060 or above, but even some in the mid 50's ended up at 1.020. After switching to this, I've not had any problems. For example, a 1.076 OG amber ended up at 1.012. Several parameters influence attenuation, importantly the temperature and the mash pH. I think having control over the mash pH gives me an additional tool to nail a particular desired outcome. I've not tried acidulated malt yet because I can achieve the right mash pH using phosphoric acid additions, but this may be something I'll try as I move forward.

Ditto for me. My first half dozen brews all finished around 1.018 and 1.020. Since I started using Bru'n Water and adjusting my water, I usually end up within 2 points of predicted FG. I like using the acid malt because my pH is usually right on from the beginning. Then I don't have to wait for the pH to stabilize and then adjust with lactic acid. I also find acid additions easy to under- or over-shoot and I spend my mash time tweaking the pH. I guess with more experience I would get better at it but the acid malt is just easier for me.

BlueHouseBrewhaus said:

Ditto for me. My first half dozen brews all finished around 1.018 and 1.020. Since I started using Bru'n Water and adjusting my water, I usually end up within 2 points of predicted FG. I like using the acid malt because my pH is usually right on from the beginning. Then I don't have to wait for the pH to stabilize and then adjust with lactic acid. I also find acid additions easy to under- or over-shoot and I spend my mash time tweaking the pH. I guess with more experience I would get better at it but the acid malt is just easier for me.

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Based on the pH ranges for alpha and beta amylase, they have different optima, similar to the case for their optimal temperature ranges before denaturation. So, as with mash temp, pH is a compromise. IOW, you just need to get it close, but I don't see any advantage to getting it on the nose when temp is probably more important. I aim for 5.3 and if I'm high or low by +/- 0.2 pH units, all is good. I think when I was having trouble, I was closer to around pH 5.8 for mashing, which is quite high for both alpha and beta. This is due to having very high alkalinity in our water source.