Saison yeast...Fluctuating warm temp or Stable cool temp?

Hey guys,

first post on here, I've referred to the site for awhile, but figured I could start asking and contributing my own knowledge now.

I'm newish to brewing, done 6 extract batches now, but looking to try a saison.

I want to know if I will have better results using either WLP565 Saison I or Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison, which have a higher fermentation temperature, or use Wyeast 3711 French Saison which has a lower fermentation temp.

I maintain about 70 to 71 deg. F in my basement, so I would have a stable temperature if I use Wyeast 3711.

I do have a warm garage though (summer in Ontario) that gets around 90 deg. in the day, but can drop down to low/mid 70's in the night. So i could pitch in my basement then move to garage. But is this too much fluctuation to benefit from one of the higher temperature yeasts(WLP565 or Wyeast 3724)? Maybe the actual beer wouldn't fluctuate as much as the air, but I do not know to what degree.

So basically, what fermentation do you recommend (basement or garage) and which yeast?

Thanks a lot for any input.

Cheers
Matt

3711 will gi you a much drier beer, and is much easier to work with. A lot of people love it, though I'm not one of them. It wasn't as agressively saisonish as my Dupot-cultured yeast. If you use 565/3724, you could start it inside, then move outside after 2-3 days, or stick your fermenter in a water bath outside to limit temp swings. Even if the garage temp varies 20 degrees per day, 10 gallons of liquid in plastic will probably vary half that much.

I also don't think temp swings are as big of a deal as a lot of people think. If the lowest your beer temp goes is 72 or whatever, the yeast shouldn't go dormant. But I may be wrong.

kingwood-kid said:

3711 will gi you a much drier beer, and is much easier to work with. A lot of people love it, though I'm not one of them. It wasn't as agressively saisonish as my Dupot-cultured yeast. If you use 565/3724, you could start it inside, then move outside after 2-3 days, or stick your fermenter in a water bath outside to limit temp swings. Even if the garage temp varies 20 degrees per day, 10 gallons of liquid in plastic will probably vary half that much.

I also don't think temp swings are as big of a deal as a lot of people think. If the lowest your beer temp goes is 72 or whatever, the yeast shouldn't go dormant. But I may be wrong.

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Thanks for the opinion! Thats, what I was also thinking, even the lowest temp it will drop to in my garage is going to be above the recommended min. temperature range for the yeast.

And I guess Im just trying to see if the temperature swings will negatively affect 565/3724 as much or more than using 3711. not that 3711 isn't a desirable yeast, I was just keen to try the other too a little more.

I just finished using 3724 and I played around with it for 6 weeks to get it to finish. I just did another using Mangrove Jacks M27 belgian yeast and it went from 1.080 to 1.009 in 5 days. Both yeasts kept in the garage at low 80's. Both taste very similiar however 2 packs of M27 was fantstatic. I just ordered 5 more packs off ebay.

Go with the 3711.

3724 will not like the temp swings and may take forever to finish. In fact if the temp swings are big enough it may not want to finish at all. 3724 does like it hot to finish out completely. 3724 can be a little finicky so if you cannot control temps the 3711 is much easier to use.

If you want to use the 3724, just get a tub of water and then you can add an aquarium heater. That way if the temp wants to drop the heater will kick in. I do this all the time and it works great.

I've had good luck with 3711. You can start low and the ramp up to mid 70s after a few days. It has kind of a spicy yet smooth flavor profile. I hear a lot of stories about stuck fermentations (around 1.030) with 3724. It seems to be a high maintenance yeast - kinda like an old girlfriend of mine.

. I hear a lot of stories about stuck fermentations (around 1.030) with 3724. It seems to be a high maintenance yeast - kinda like an old girlfriend of mine.

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3724 is not a good yeast to use if you cannot control temps. I love the flavor and have never had it stick on me, but I do carefully control temps.

I forgot to mention another good choice... Belle Saison. It is a beast like 3711 and does not require higher temps.

Cheers for the responses guys!

3711 is definitely more reassuring now, I don't have the temp control to delve into 3724 yet.

Another option I'm considering. The Yeast Bay Walomian Farmhouse. Looks pretty sweet, perfect temp range for me. It's a pricey yeast, but an extra $4 is no problem to try something a little different.

Just hoping I'm not wasting a good yeast on an extract batch. I do have a good recipe planned out, full boil batch, with a couple extracts (hi quality source), neat hop schedule and some unique spice additions, but still wonder if I should wait til my transfer to all grain to tackle this one

Cheers!

Another you might look at is belle saison by Danstar. I just did both sides of what you're thinking about using the belle saison. I took a 5 gallon batch and split it. Did the first two days inside in more stable temps then moved one of the fermenters into the garage. I tasted both yesterday at the 2 week mark and for myself the higher temps made the better beer. The inside one was at 1.003 and the garage one was at 1.000. So a little more attenuation with the higher temps and it was much more clear than the other one.

If you have the equipment and are up for it I would split the batch and see what you get out of whatever yeast you use by trying both temperature ranges.

It was suggested to me to start both inside to avoid Fusels in the beginning and I followed that. Don't know if it would hurt anything to go the whole time in higher temps but I chose to play it safe on that portion of it.

On a side note I did this with an extract batch. Didn't use a saison recipe but was a honey cream ale with coriander and seeds of paradise added for fun.

You should consider WLP 566 Saison II... I love the flavour profile, it isn't as finicky as 565 (3724), and it's closer to a classic saison flavour than 3711. I'm surprised at how folks always vacillate between 3711 and 3724 when WLP 566 is a best of both worlds type of strain.

Chupacabras said:

You should consider WLP 566 Saison II... I love the flavour profile, it isn't as finicky as 565 (3724), and it's closer to a classic saison flavour than 3711. I'm surprised at how folks always vacillate between 3711 and 3724 when WLP 566 is a best of both worlds type of strain.

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I definitely looked at that one and wanted to go with it! my local shop and canadian mail-order that I use both don't carry it though

If you can but Saison Dupont, you can culture up the yeast from the bottle. You'll get a combination of 565/3724 and 566, and maybe something else. I ferment hot (I've done it at 95-100) with this and get over 80% attenuation on most beers without tasting nail polish remover or rocket fuel. It's a little more work than buying a store-bought culture, but it gives great results.

Ambleside,

Thanks for asking this question. I just put my first 3711 saison to ferment on the 13th and I've been using HBT as a wealth of information to answer my questions, your thread was very useful in defining my target ferm temps. I also live in Ontario (in London actually) and the recent downturn in temps this week has caused my basement to heat up to 21C (from 18C) and the 3711 is developing beautiful esters.

Cheers!