large beer

I am going to brew a RIS with an approximate O.G. of 1.15 and an abv of approximately 14%. Of course this is going to require a huge starter. My question is, using Wyeast 1968 London ESB, which has an alcohol tolerance of 9%, and following up with Super Yeast to allow to ferment out, would I need to build a starter to the quantity calculated for the O.G. Is the London ESB, going to provide significant enough of a flavor profile as to require making such a huge starter? and when is a good time to add the super yeast? Or should I forget the London ESB and just go with the Super Yeast?

i would just stick to the london yeast and pitch a ton of it. after initial ferm dies down bring up the temp a bit and give it time. after a while if the gravity is not low enough for you i recommend transfering to a secondary, ive found that this stirs some of the yeast back to life and you may get a few more points out of it. ive never used super yeast but i think i would exhaust all other options before i did

but with an alcohol tolerance of 9%, will I not have problems reaching the abv potential?

I dunno anything about this super yeast, but I would do a massive starter of the London ESB, and of course chill and decant before pitching so you don't dillute too much.

I would let it go until the primary fermentation dies out, then pitch a starter of your more attenuative yeast.

And yes, the flavor from the ESB yeast will be there. Most of the yeast flavor is created in the most active period at the begining of primary.

Although I have never personally done something like this, so take all I say with a grain of salt.

I have read about (but am honestly not very familiar with) negative affects from yeast competition. So it might make sense to rack to secondary and then pitch a big starter of your other yeast to minimize this. But again, I dunno. Just spitballing here.

i know what it says in the specs for the yeast but thats not really how it works. there is no switch in the yeast brains that says " all right fellas we're at 8.9% abv, time to shut off". I think, and my experience seems to back this up, that there are lots of factors in play and just because the manufacturer gives a yeast tolerance of whatever % thaqt this is it. pitch lots of yeast, wait a while, trasfer to secondary, wait a while, check gravity. after all of this if you aren't were you want to be then figure out plan B.

i think i should explain that, if I understand correctly, the super yeast is capable of consuming sugars that beer yeast does not and those sugars contrubute to the taste and mouthfeel of the finished beer, it would make it too dry.
this is why i don't think I would use the super yeast unless i had too.

Id use a different yeast. 1968 doesn't attenuate well and has a low alcohol tolerance.

Whats the "Super yeast" you are referring to? If its SD super yeast (WLP090) then id say use that instead.

i've used 1968 on a 10% barleywine with no issues at all. 14% is another beast though, i would vote 007 or 090 personally but I do think that 1968 if you pitched enough would get you close.

I would recommend 007 for HG beers like this.

Agreed on 007. Make sure you pitch well, give it plenty of nutrient, and pure Oxygen. Otherwise, I have noticed it to stall out in mid 60% attenuation.


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I made a red ale (11.4%) last year. I started with 007, until I reached about 8.9%, then pitched a 1L started of 090. Finished dry and tasted great. Mind you, 090 can be quite malty at relatively lower gravities (9-12%) and its tolerant to around 20%. I certainly noticed the malt character come through o my batch. The yeast was awesome.

Thanks for the replies. I contacted Wyeast and they recommended 1084? irish ale yeast. I also contacted Jamil Z. He said if I don't care about the flavor just use the Super Yeast from the start. But I care about the flavor. I opted to go with the 1968 and pitch a huge starter and follow up with the 4347 extreme fermentation if necessary. This beer has a projected f.g. of 1.049, that's higher than many brews o.g.

o.k. so after 2 weeks of fermentation with the 1968, I am at a gravity of 1.085. So I made a starter with the 4347 and pitched it 4 days ago and nothing is happening wtf!

I've made several monster beers (including an 18% barleywine that took 2nd place in the local BJCP regionals) using a similar method to what you are planning. Pitch whichever "character" yeast you want in the beginning. Give it a week or 2 then (over)pitch your 099. You'll have no trouble at all reaching 14%. You could go even cheaper and toss in a few packs of cheap champagne yeast.

I had a similar problem trying to ferment a barleywine with 1968, but mine got down to about 1.040 before crapping out. I had to put the whole batch onto the yeast cake from a batch using 1272 to get it to ferment fully.

I got the idea here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/psa-foolproof-stuck-ferment-fixer-72072/

May be time to make a mild or an Irish stout using 007 or 1084 or something and then put the big beer on the cake after it has fermented out. Like the title of the linked thread says, it's foolproof.

JonM said:

I had a similar problem trying to ferment a barleywine with 1968, but mine got down to about 1.040 before crapping out. I had to put the whole batch onto the yeast cake from a batch using 1272 to get it to ferment fully.

I got the idea here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/psa-foolproof-stuck-ferment-fixer-72072/

May be time to make a mild or an Irish stout using 007 or 1084 or something and then put the big beer on the cake after it has fermented out. Like the title of the linked thread says, it's foolproof.

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^^ This is how I start my 25% Utopias-inspired brew.

1.085 with hydrometer or refractometer?


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An update on this beer. I learned from Wyeast that 4347 is a wine strain, and although would work, it would take months. I pitched a vial of WLp 099 and got some movement, then per advice from here, I pitched on a cake of 1056. This seemed to get things going. After 3 1/2 months in primary, I finally got down to my f.g. 1.049. I kegged it and sampled it after a week. There are similarities to Bell's Expedition Stout, only mine is a little thicker and more alcoholic. It tastes great. More time will hopefully mellow out the alcohol heat, but that said, I kinda like the burn. At this point also there is virtually no carbonation, so I expect easier drinking when it's fully carbed. ABV 13.52%

I've been sampling this beer on a monthly basis, it is really sweet. My plan is to sit on it for a year or better. The samples produce some sludge every time. Even though it is carbed, I was thinking about putting this thing back into a carboy and let the fallout continue, either that or transferring to another keg just to try and clean it up a little. Any thoughts?

pmoneyismyfriend said:

I've been sampling this beer on a monthly basis, it is really sweet. My plan is to sit on it for a year or better. The samples produce some sludge every time. Even though it is carbed, I was thinking about putting this thing back into a carboy and let the fallout continue, either that or transferring to another keg just to try and clean it up a little. Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

If you're going to keep it that long, if probably sit it in a corner and forget about it for a while. Just check on it periodically to vent the pressure, esp if it hasn't reached fg yet. No reason to expose it to air and potential infection by transferring back to a carboy

the beer is already at 13% with a final gravity of 1.049. this beer has a final gravity higher than alot of brews O.G. If it continues to fall that would be fine by me, it is just really sweet. Hoping the sweetness will mellow over time, if not I might be brewing a lower gravity stout and combine the two. Good call on the no transfer, I just want to get rid of the muck

I would think you should add some champaign yeast like ec-1118. That will chew through the rest of the sugar while leaving the maltoses intact.