dry vs liquid yeast: things I've noticed

Hey guys,

This is not another "which is better" thread, but rather just some personal findings that I would like to share.

I don't use a lot of liquid yeast. I'd say 90% of my brews have been with S-04 or S-05. I always rehydrate per the directions in the "Yeast" book. The liquid yeasts that I have tried have been Wyeast 1056, 1272 and 1007, and I always make a starter. I always add 1 min of pure O2 with a home depot red O2 tank and aeration wand with 2micron stone. What I have found, is that the beers brewed with Liquid yeasts just taste cleaner, and they get there faster.

In the past year (with the exception of my last two batches on my new electric rig) my process has been repeated almost exactly for each brew. I have only repeated a few recipes, where I changed the yeast, and I found the brews with the liquid yeast just taste "more professional". I don't really know how else to describe it. Most of my ales are either pale ales, ipas or porters. I do not know how to describe the flavors I get from the dry yeast over the liquid yeast, except that they are just "green" tasting for much longer than when I use liquid yeast.

Has anyone else experienced this? I have always been a believer in that S-05 is perfect for any american style pale ale or IPA, but after reviewing my brewing and tasting notes over the past year, I'm starting to re-think that.

Again, I'm not claiming anything, it could be all placebo (except the gf notices a slight difference too). I just wanted to start a discussion about this.

Let me know your thoughts.

that is the reason I almost stopped using dry yeast. Because I can taste the difference. You can take split batch and use dry vs liquid and liquid always taste better with same conditions. I know some will say that dry yeast is good for 99% of the beers we brew but I stick to my liquid yeast selection and taste superiority.

Damned good info fellas!

I am sure you will catch some flak, there are some people who would ram their head against a brick wall just to insist that they are right.

For me, it really depends on what I'm making and whether I care about the yeast character. I don't mean that I don't normally care about quality! but that some beers, like a very hoppy IPA, cover up any subtleties of yeast character anyway and I probably want a dry ester-free finish anyway. In that case, S04 at 64 degrees is great, or S05 at 65 degrees.

But even then, there may be perceptible differences. As an example, I have an oatmeal stout recipe that I love. I've done it exactly the same with S04, Wyeast 1335, and Denny's Favorite 50. The Wyeast 1335 just was better than the S04. My notes talk about a richer flavor, better mouthfeel, and so on. Was the S04 "good enough"? Yes. But the Wyeast 1335 was better.

I do use dry yeast for many beers. But I use liquid yeast for many beers as well. Sometimes S05 or S04 is just want I need. Sometimes, I need a different strain. Dry yeast isn't better or worse- it's just that it's only available in a couple of strains that may or may not be what I need for each recipe.

I've done tons of beers with US-05, and tons with 1056. Liquid have all been better

So do you think diference come from the strain of yeast or preparation for the package/smack pack?, do you still have the same difference if you use washed yeast from beer fermented with dry yeasts and with washed yeast from liquid starter? Would you still have the same difference if you would prepare starter from dry yeast as you do with liquid to have the same conditions? (i know i know not a good idea)

cciszew said:

So do you think diference come from the strain of yeast or preparation for the package/smack pack?, do you still have the same difference if you use washed yeast from beer fermented with dry yeasts and with washed yeast from liquid starter? Would you still have the same difference if you would prepare starter from dry yeast as you do with liquid to have the same conditions? (i know i know not a good idea)

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I think it's simply the strain. Since dry yeast only comes in a few strains, it's not really possible to have the "perfect" dry yeast for all beers. I think the S04 and S05 I've used have been great quality (washed or dry out of the package) but the strain is the same either it's liquid after using once or dry.

Now, some people like dry better because they've underpitched liquid yeast and not had as good results with liquid yeast. I'm talking about all factors being equal- proper pitching temperature, proper amount of yeast, proper fermentation temperatures, etc. If someone uses one vial of yeast for a 1.080 beer with no starter, they probably WILL get much better results from using 11 grams of dry yeast.

I was also thinking if preparation made any difference. Like I stated earlier, I always re-hydrate dry or make a starter with liquid per Jamil's "Yeast" book. I always try to follow the mr.malty pitch calculator also. Besides the "liquid vs. dry" I try to keep everything else identical.

And again, I'm not saying "liquid is best, dry sucks" I'm only sharing my personal observations. I wish I was saying dry was better... its obviously cheaper and easier. Beers fermented with liquid yeast always just seem a little better. Yooper kind of stated what I wanted to say... a little richer flavor, a little better mouthfeel. Does the dry yeast work? Of course and if I'm trying to just make a session beer for friends who don't know any better, I'd probably still go for the dry. It's cheaper and easier. But when I want to make an outstanding beer, I think I'm going to go liquid from now on.

I've only recently tried using dry yeast just for comparison's sake. None of my brews with dry yeast are on tap yet so I haven't had a chance to make up my mind. Wy1272 is my usual go to yeast.

OP, I think you need to match cell counts when comparing the two (dry vs liquid). My guess is that you're pitching a lot more yeast when you pitch the dry. At packaging there are 6 billion cells in a safale 05 11 gram pack. At packaging there are 1 billion cells in the liquid. Unless you're making a starter to get to ~4.5-5 billion cells with the liquid yeast, you're pitching more when you pitch a pack of dry.

The additional yeast pitched could explain why the liquid is "green" for so much longer than the dry.

I guess we havent really paid much attention to yeast either. We brew a lot of hipped IPA's also. We have basically three recipes we are doing all the time... Coffee Stout, Mad Hatter IPA, and a standard Citra IPA. THe first couple we used 05, no starter, just pitched, no 02, etc... turned out fine... we saved the yeast from those and havent bought yeast in like 15 brews... and the first couple I just dumped the trub, yeast and etc into the fermenter cause we didnt no any better. lol... Of course I always think our beer tastes good, but we took it to the local brewery and some buddies that work at others and they thought it was fantastic... BUT, that being said, I would like to learn more about yeast as we are at that point now and it seems like something worth learning more and more about...

DannPM said:

OP, I think you need to match cell counts when comparing the two (dry vs liquid). My guess is that you're pitching a lot more yeast when you pitch the dry. At packaging there are 6 billion cells in a safale 05 11 gram pack. At packaging there are 1 billion cells in the liquid. Unless you're making a starter to get to ~4.5-5 billion cells with the liquid yeast, you're pitching more when you pitch a pack of dry.

The additional yeast pitched could explain why the liquid is "green" for so much longer than the dry.

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He's saying the dry yeast beers are "green" for longer than the liquid beers, not the other way around.

Whatever he noticed, he is not leveling the playing field for a fair comparison when using two different pitch rates.

The OP did state that he uses a starter with pure O2 additions for the liquid yeast so I would venture to say that his pitching rates should be comparable.

DannPM: Wyeast Activator packs contain 100 billion cells, not 1 billion.

I always pitch per the Mr.Malty calculator... add pure 02 in the starter before adding yeast, and then intermittent shaking throughout the day. I don't make a starter for the dry yeast because as far as I understand, it is unnecessary. I should clarify that I rarely make beers over 1.070 OG, and I can taste this difference in all my beers, no matter what the gravity or style.

do you airate the when you use dry yeast?

I have to agree w/ the OP. I've used both, & while I find 05 to be adequate to good, the liquid strains simply seem more refined. Did not like 04 at all.

-d

brandonhagen1 said:

do you airate the when you use dry yeast?

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Yes, besides re-hydrating the dry yeast and making a starter for liquid yeast, my methods remain the same.

BBL_Brewer said:

The OP did state that he uses a starter with pure O2 additions for the liquid yeast so I would venture to say that his pitching rates should be comparable.

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I agree or at least, close enough for a good comparison. However, I almost always used liquid yeast due to the variety of yeast strains available. I think dry yeasts (clean) are fine in a hoppy IPA or chocolately stout. I have never done a straight up comparison though.

brandonhagen1 said:

do you airate the when you use dry yeast?

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According to the makers of Nottingham, dry yeast requires no aeration

Frequently Asked Questions | Danstar Premium Beer Yeasts - The Dry Yeast Advantage

kappclark said:

According to the makers of Nottingham, dry yeast requires no aeration

Frequently Asked Questions | Danstar Premium Beer Yeasts - The Dry Yeast Advantage

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I've read that too. They also claim you don't need to rehydrate don't they? Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've heard jz and Palmer call bs on both counts.

My take on the subject, not that I'm an expert, but it just depends on what I want. I really like dry yeast for many beers. I alwaus use s-05 for ipas. On the other hand, if I'm making am extract apa I'll switch to something that doesn't attenuate as far. Basically, they're great all around yeasts, and perfect for some beers, slightly less than ideal for others.

DannPM said:

At packaging there are 6 billion cells in a safale 05 11 gram pack. At packaging there are 1 billion cells in the liquid.

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There are on average, 100 billion cells in a white labs vial or Wyeast Activator pack and 20 billion cells per gram of dry yeast at packaging.