Why is it so frikkin hard to buy a broken keg??

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Homercidal

Homercidal

Licensed Sensual Massage Therapist.
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
33,269
Reaction score
5,708
Location
Reed City, MI
After many a call today, I still cannot find anyone willing or able to sell me a keg that unusable by the industry.

I've called Breweries.
I've called the places that manage their kegs.
I've called the places that repair the kegs the keg managing companies use.

All for naught.

It's like they WANT me to break the law and buy a keg from a fraternity!

I mean, I can't believe that there is NO supply of kegs that are broken beyond repair out there! And I'm trying to do some good by using the legal system and by re-using a keg that would probably end up being melted down and reformed, wasting energy resources in the process.

I've found used kegs, but the prices was about the same as what I could pay for a brand new SS kettle. CL is no help. There are no posts WITH kegs, but several WANTING kegs. So that route doesn't seem worthwhile.
 
Homercidal said:
After many a call today, I still cannot find anyone willing or able to sell me a keg that unusable by the industry.

I've called Breweries.
I've called the places that manage their kegs.
I've called the places that repair the kegs the keg managing companies use.

All for naught.

It's like they WANT me to break the law and buy a keg from a fraternity!

I mean, I can't believe that there is NO supply of kegs that are broken beyond repair out there! And I'm trying to do some good by using the legal system and by re-using a keg that would probably end up being melted down and reformed, wasting energy resources in the process.

I've found used kegs, but the prices was about the same as what I could pay for a brand new SS kettle. CL is no help. There are no posts WITH kegs, but several WANTING kegs. So that route doesn't seem worthwhile.
Click to expand...

Check your local scrap yard in the SS bin.
 
How about Craigslist? There were several in my area in the $40 range.

Alan
 
I have had the same problem, the encouragement to pay the deposit and walk away....and don't ask, don't tell. I have resisted doing this, and continue my search.

As for sabco, it doesn't make sense to me to order a keg from across the country when I have so many breweries in my vicinity....please, some local breweries or keg suppliers give the homebrewing community an outlet for this!
 
IrregularPulse said:
Check your local scrap yard in the SS bin.
Click to expand...

I have. I found a few double sinks that I am thinking about picking through, a SS kettle (smaller than my turkey fryer), a couple of SS fire extinguishers without the valves, a 200 GALLON kettle, and an approximately 100 GALLON CONICAL! Plus some SS pipes and whatnot.

Which reminds me that I need to go back and grab that SS kettle for soapmaking and the piece of Copper I picked out for use as a backing for welding sheet metal...

I should look for another scarp yard though. I love hunting through their piles of junk!
 
I've had similar luck (or lack of it) in terms of getting my mitts on an old sanke. It seems that breweries are just not interested in dispensing old kegs to the public, not sure it that's because of liability issues or just that there's not sufficient benefit in comparison with the costs to have someone handling the transaction.

I did find an outfit in Milwaukee that's doing keggle's with 3 npt fittings welded in for $150 and (according to them) really cheap shipping. I might consider going down that route but I can get a 60 qt stainless from my LHBS for $170 and I don't have to pay shipping. Still have to drill it out and do the fittings thought, so it might be a wash.

It does seem to be a non-trivial thing to get your hands on a keg for a DIY project unless you already have some connections.
 
I bought mine from a scrap yard. ($30 two years ago) I realise that there are legal issues here, so you have to ask questions about how it was acquired and who from etc.

I asked those questions when i bought mine. Although I was satisfied with the answers, I must admit that my mind glazed over as I was just looking at the keg and doing the modifications in my mind. :)
 
I got super lucky 1 time and scored my 1/2 bbl sanke off CL, using multiple different search words. I check 2 times a day in multiple areas of the state nearish me. There are also people with the wanted to buy posts but that did not stop this guy from making his own post. I got the keg, keg ice tub and tap for $40.00.

It is ALOT of work for near no pay off but really how many kegs do you need 2 or 3 so it does end up paying off eventually...best of luck to you in your search!
 
lincoln said:
http://www.brew-magic.com/
Click to expand...

Ok, so I call these guys, and find out that they regularly sell their cheap-o kettle (basic keg with the lid cut off, for around $130.

BUT, he said they have some kegs that wobble (due to being frozen with beer in them, which pushes the bottom down past the rim) and they won't make them into kettles, but he would sell them for 1/2 price.

After shipping, that comes to just about $80 and you have to do the cutting and everything yourself. But since I work at a machine shop with Plasma Cutters and a circle jig, this should not be a problem. Add the TIG welder and stainless scrap I have access to and making it work should not be a problem.

The only problem is that $80 is still a nice chunk of change for me. But I think it's not too bad a price considering it's a 15.5 gallon capacity kettle and I'm guessing they are VERY sturdy overall.

I might have to start saving up my spare change... This looks like the only way I'll find a Keggle in my future.
 
The reason they changed the deposit on kegs to $50 a few years back is because the scrap metal is worth around that much. People were paying the $10 deposits and then scrapping them for $40-$50. Breweries will do just about anything to refurbish a keg to working order, otherwise they scrap them. Its not worth it to them to start a resale operation for the kegs.

I'm not a lawyer but I dont think there are any legal implications to buying a full keg drinking it and keeping the empty. Afterall that is what you pay the deposit for. If you dont return the empty, the liquor store takes your deposit and pays off the distributor. I'm pretty sure that keg is yours.

If you have frats around your area, I would find out how much of a deposit they paid and give them that, it'll save them a trip to the store to return them.
 
knelson said:
The reason they changed the deposit on kegs to $50 a few years back is because the scrap metal is worth around that much. People were paying the $10 deposits and then scrapping them for $40-$50. Breweries will do just about anything to refurbish a keg to working order, otherwise they scrap them. Its not worth it to them to start a resale operation for the kegs.

I'm not a lawyer but I dont think there are any legal implications to buying a full keg drinking it and keeping the empty. Afterall that is what you pay the deposit for. If you dont return the empty, the liquor store takes your deposit and pays off the distributor. I'm pretty sure that keg is yours.

If you have frats around your area, I would find out how much of a deposit they paid and give them that, it'll save them a trip to the store to return them.
Click to expand...

Sorry, you are not buying the keg with the deposit. You are buying the beer and leasing the keg. The law says that the keg still belongs to the company who owns them, and you have to return them.

It makes breaking the law very tempting!
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
I bought mine from a scrap yard. ($30 two years ago) I realise that there are legal issues here, so you have to ask questions about how it was acquired and who from etc.
Click to expand...

I must admit that I admire your desire to be honest in your acquisition of a keg. I know if I were in a scrap yard and they had a keg, I wouldn't give two seconds thought to asking them how they acquired it. If it's in a scrap yard, then it's likely no one would be missing it too badly. Also, I have yet to hear of anyone in that situation ever being busted by the keg police.
:D
 
JJL said:
I must admit that I admire your desire to be honest in your acquisition of a keg. I know if I were in a scrap yard and they had a keg, I wouldn't give two seconds thought to asking them how they acquired it. If it's in a scrap yard, then it's likely no one would be missing it too badly. Also, I have yet to hear of anyone in that situation ever being busted by the keg police.
:D
Click to expand...

Our scrap yard will not take any kegs now. It's against the law (or at least terribly inconvenient for them ) to take them. Due to the fact that people would buy a keg of beer, drink the beer, and then sell the keg for scrap metal when the scrap rate was higher than the deposit.

The problem is that it costs the distributor a LOT more than the deposit to replace that keg. So you are ripping off the distributor.

They have since raised the deposit, but still cannot raise it high enough to cover the cost of the keg, because doing this would price the beer out of many people's price range, even if they got their deposit back (because some people would not have the $$ to start with, or would be afraid someone else would take the keg and they'd be stuck without the deposit).
 
How about this? Find a liquor store that does a lot of keg sales and scour their returned kegs for ones from a defunct brewery? If the brewery no longer exists, is the keg owned by anyone? It this like taking home an orphaned kitten?
 
Homercidal said:
Our scrap yard will not take any kegs now. It's against the law (or at least terribly inconvenient for them ) to take them.
Click to expand...

Too bad. Just guessing but I bet they still receive them through various channels but they don't offer them to the public - they probably end up under a bulk pile and sold off as scrap SS.

I found my keg at a scrap yard but I wish I could have found a more legit means. I called every brewery and distributor in the state to no avail.
 
babalu87 said:
Kegs cost MUCH more than the deposit

Deposit could be $100 and it would still be much more
Click to expand...

Just to play devil's advocate on this, you're right if the keg you receive is brand new and you're the only person ever to have had this keg. But the reality is that the keg you get has been with many people, and the cost each person pays for the beer inside the kegs helps to offset the purchase price of that keg. If that keg has been with 50 people, I'd bet that it's been paid for at least once, if not twice over.

Going back to the legality and ethics of it: if you DO keep that keg, the brewery has to buy another to replace it, which then has to be paid off again over the many people that lease it when they buy the beer contained within. Theoretically your deposit becomes a down payment on that new keg and since the general public will pay around $200 for a brand new 1/2 bbl keg, a reasonably sized brewery will be getting them for less, say $150. So the brewery has to dump out $100 from their pocket and make that back on the beer they sell inside the kegs. If a brewery can only spend money on maintaining the kegs that are already 'paid for', they can potentially even lower their prices or focus on expanding their business since they have more profit. Buying new kegs to replace 'missing' ones can put the beer prices up because if a brewery loses too many kegs, they'll be looking to make that money up somewhere...which is why you shouldn't steal kegs!
 
I just called the big local liquor store chain, asked to talk to the manager, and asked him if I could buy an empty keg from them. He said, "sure, for the price of the deposit it's yours." While I'm sure some will take issue with this approach, I personally have no problem with it.

-BigCask
 
Keg registration is not a theft preventative it used to assign accountability to adults who purchase kegs for minors. They don't track down people who don't return kegs; but the police will show up at your house if they bust a kegger with underage drinkers sipping off of the keg registered to you.
 
I suspect that the brewing industry has re-evaluated what is broken and want what is merely banged up. Good economic times, you can afford to toss the uglies.
 
Anyone else keep reading the thread title as "Why is it so frikkin hard to buy a broken LEG??
Bloody dyslexia! (Well, not dyslexia, just lazy eyeballs) :(
 
BigCask said:
I just called the big local liquor store chain, asked to talk to the manager, and asked him if I could buy an empty keg from them. He said, "sure, for the price of the deposit it's yours." While I'm sure some will take issue with this approach, I personally have no problem with it.

-BigCask
Click to expand...
Wow, it's not his to sell and selling is not what he's doing here. He's telling you basically, it you don't return it you don't get your deposit back. he doesn't care cause it's not his property and his business ethics and loyalty to his distributor suck.

lschiavo said:
I know. But who would pay the brewery for a lost keg?
Click to expand...
The distributor I believe would be stuff with the bill, not the liquor store guy or the brewery.
 
Hang Glider said:
Thank you LGI!
I thought it was just me -
Click to expand...

This thread kept popping up in "My replies" I wondered why, as I didn't remember posting in it because I assumed that "Broken Leg" was just one of those silly names for a commercial beer that I had never heard of. :eek:

Cool name for a beer actually! :D
 
IrregularPulse said:
The distributor I believe would be stuff with the bill, not the liquor store guy or the brewery.
Click to expand...

That is exactly my point. You would be in possession of a keg that if not returned the distributor would have to pay for. So, call the distributor and say you can't return it and ask what you owe them. If they say nothing, you have just ethically obtained a keg in my opinion.

You could tell them you moved or got drunk and shot holes in it and feel really bad about it or got drunk and cut the top off and drilled holes in it and installed a ball valve and sight glass.

I was just wondering if anyone has tried this approach.
 
Typically, when the brewery delivers the beer to the distributor, they include the deposit on the invoice. So if Brewer's Brewing drops off 48 1/2bbls kegs at a wholesale of $100, there'll be an item on the invoice for 48 1/2bbl @$100, and an item for 48 keg deposits @$50.

When the distributor sells a keg to a retailer, they invoice it the same way, one line item for the beer, one for the keg deposit.

When the distributor picks up empty, returned kegs, they just count up how many and issue the retailer a credit. When the brewery picks up empties from the distributor, same thing.

So if you buy one of those 48 1/2bbls of Brewer's Beer from Drinker's Retail, you pay a $50 deposit. If you keep the keg, Drinker's gets credited for 47 1/bbls returned, and make up the loss on the 48th with your deposit, while the distributor is ahead $50. When Brewer's picks up the empties from the distributor, they only credit the distributor with 47 deposits @$50, and the distributor makes it up having only credited Drinker's Retail with 47 deposits earlier. That means that Brewer's Brewing stands at having $50 more cash on hand and one less keg, having initially invoiced the distributor for 48 keg deposits and only credited them for 47 returns.

Keg pricing depends on the size of the float, or order, but for small craft breweries its generally in the $150-$160 per keg range.
 
Rundownhouse said:
Typically, when the brewery delivers the beer to the distributor, they include the deposit on the invoice. So if Brewer's Brewing drops off 48 1/2bbls kegs at a wholesale of $100, there'll be an item on the invoice for 48 1/2bbl @$100, and an item for 48 keg deposits @$50.

When the distributor sells a keg to a retailer, they invoice it the same way, one line item for the beer, one for the keg deposit.

When the distributor picks up empty, returned kegs, they just count up how many and issue the retailer a credit. When the brewery picks up empties from the distributor, same thing.

So if you buy one of those 48 1/2bbls of Brewer's Beer from Drinker's Retail, you pay a $50 deposit. If you keep the keg, Drinker's gets credited for 47 1/bbls returned, and make up the loss on the 48th with your deposit, while the distributor is ahead $50. When Brewer's picks up the empties from the distributor, they only credit the distributor with 47 deposits @$50, and the distributor makes it up having only credited Drinker's Retail with 47 deposits earlier. That means that Brewer's Brewing stands at having $50 more cash on hand and one less keg, having initially invoiced the distributor for 48 keg deposits and only credited them for 47 returns.

Keg pricing depends on the size of the float, or order, but for small craft breweries its generally in the $150-$160 per keg range.
Click to expand...

OK. I see how it works now. Nice description. So, my idea would work but you would have to call the brewery. Kind of a hostage situation;)
 
I imagine that the total number of homebrewers who keep a keg for their use is very small compared to the total number of college kids who were selling them for scrap.

Not that I'm not saying that's it's ok to keep them.
 

Similar threads

HopSing
Keg Tumbler - v1
Replies
6
Views
949
Broken Crow
Broken Crow
Hop
Ongoing Review: BrewHardware Premium Recirculating BIAB Package
Replies
4
Views
869
Bobby_M
Bobby_M
FloppyKnockers
Simple DIY Keg Management
Replies
37
Views
5K
GoeHaarden
GoeHaarden
mongoose33
NorthEast Brewery Tour
Replies
12
Views
2K
mongoose33
mongoose33
P
Yet another Keezer Build. But this one is Mine!
Replies
6
Views
3K
prof25
P
Williams Brewing 300

Latest posts

Back
Top