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Old 10-31-2007, 02:35 AM   #21
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>> But the minute they hang a competition medal from the menu board and call it
>> an "award-winning brew", but don't offer up that exact same recipe to the
>> customer, it becomes an egregious case of ethical spoilage

I think this is the crux of it. Everyone who brews realizes that just to make the 'same' beer, you have to tweak your recipe to compensate for ingredients, water, season, etc. And because of that, your beer will naturally vary bbl to bbl. But the instant you knowingly tweak your recipe to win a competition, and then use that win to sell the 'original' recipe (or use the name to imply they are the same), you have violated the trust of your customers. And that is wrong...

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Old 10-31-2007, 08:26 AM   #22
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Wow! All of the moral and ethical people in America came out on this thread!! You guys are killing me!! Are you paying the overhead of the said brewery? Do you have any idea how many breweries go under every week in this country? How about the hop shortage crisis? Are you going to complain when the brewer has to make his famous signiture beer, but with hops that not even he has ever heard of, because the regular hops just aren't available? I live in Northern California, home of the best beers on the planet!! Russian River, Bear Republic, Lagunitas, Moylands, and the list goes on!! I gaurantee that I notice a difference in flavor from batch to batch at every one of those breweries and that is called craft brewing!! And each one has won Gold at the GABF. So this discussion is stupid and pointless. If you are looking for morals and ethics go drink Budwieser or Coors!! Just stop it, and have a hand crafted beer from the local area and thank god that you have it!!

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Old 10-31-2007, 12:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastside Brewer
Wow! All of the moral and ethical people in America came out on this thread!! You guys are killing me!! Are you paying the overhead of the said brewery? Do you have any idea how many breweries go under every week in this country? How about the hop shortage crisis? Are you going to complain when the brewer has to make his famous signiture beer, but with hops that not even he has ever heard of, because the regular hops just aren't available? I live in Northern California, home of the best beers on the planet!! Russian River, Bear Republic, Lagunitas, Moylands, and the list goes on!! I gaurantee that I notice a difference in flavor from batch to batch at every one of those breweries and that is called craft brewing!! And each one has won Gold at the GABF. So this discussion is stupid and pointless. If you are looking for morals and ethics go drink Budwieser or Coors!! Just stop it, and have a hand crafted beer from the local area and thank god that you have it!!
Interesting viewpoint. Just take what you're given and keep your mouth shut. Does that apply to automobiles, filet mignon and parachutes too?
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Old 10-31-2007, 01:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkidwell83
I want to open a brewery. Not a large micobrewery with all the bells and whistles, but a brewery with a soul. A brewery that when people that have tried its products hear the name, it puts a smile on their' faces, atleast on the inside. Just like with scotches, I want a brewery the makes each batch by hand with out the use of computers and fancy machines. A brewery that advertises its products as different and unique in there own right. Where the beer they had last month is the same recipe this month, but because its done by hand, and we as humans aren't perfect, it has those slight nuances that are very subtle, that the person with the refined palate such as the wine drinker will appreciate in each bottle they have and enjoy the little differences. Could a brewery such as this survive with the proper marketing tools and reaching the right audience? I think it could, but I want to know what all of you think.
I don't know the differences between a winery and a brewery, but a LOT of small wineries (at least in my area) survive on the " I'm not a big winery, it's just a bunch of locals making some decent wine out of grapes we grow here. It's all hand crafted and we'd like you to have some. If not, that's ok " mantra.

I think if they can do it, you can do it. The only major difference is storage of the product. They can store cases upon cases for years and years and it only gets better. With your average brew, it's not going to last quite as long. You're also more likely to have go niche, which will give you an even smaller share of the market.

I, personally, love the idea. I think it would take someone with a large land plot and beautiful old house (much like a small winery) that people come to and visit and purchase your wares. I doubt you'd do well with a 'bar in a strip mall' idea.
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastside Brewer
Wow! All of the moral and ethical people in America came out on this thread!! You guys are killing me!! Are you paying the overhead of the said brewery? Do you have any idea how many breweries go under every week in this country? How about the hop shortage crisis? Are you going to complain when the brewer has to make his famous signiture beer, but with hops that not even he has ever heard of, because the regular hops just aren't available? I live in Northern California, home of the best beers on the planet!! Russian River, Bear Republic, Lagunitas, Moylands, and the list goes on!! I gaurantee that I notice a difference in flavor from batch to batch at every one of those breweries and that is called craft brewing!! And each one has won Gold at the GABF. So this discussion is stupid and pointless. If you are looking for morals and ethics go drink Budwieser or Coors!! Just stop it, and have a hand crafted beer from the local area and thank god that you have it!!
Subtle differences between batches is one thing but blatent bait and switch is a whole different story. Overhead, going out of business, etc has nothing to do with modifying recipe for a competition entry. If you sit down at a micro and get the sampler and the layout descriptions note how the IPA is done with Centennial and Cascade, that's what you'd expect is in there. I think you have it backwards. You expect MORE honesty from a micro because they're the crowd most home brewers relate to most.
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Old 10-31-2007, 05:30 PM   #26
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Bobby m, you make a strong point, subtle differences are not the same as blatent bait and switch. I don't honestly know any breweries in my area doing that. But you are totally right, if you go into a brew pub and pay 3 or 4 dolllars for a pint of your favorite IPA and it's something different, that would suck! I think I may have misunderstood the premise of this discussion, my only point is, I don't think the breweries around here are entering one beer and serving another. I agree that we should expect honesty from micro breweries, I am sorry that you have had to experience that.

Eastside

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Old 10-31-2007, 06:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Dean
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I believe the evil-doers of the world have enough power to be quite open about it.

There are three things in this country taxed excessivly:

1.) Oil
2.) Alcohol
3.) Tobacco

I find it no co-incidence that two of the three are physically addictive and that the first is culturally addictive. (How many environmentalists would complain about Wal-Mart prices if the trucking industry stopped burning oil today?)

I don't think it's so much that alcohol is "evil" but that alcohol is a tax-based cash cow.
And I still haven't figured out why they haven't legalized and taxed the sh!t out of pot yet. I bet that would put a dent in the old deficit....
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Old 10-31-2007, 07:32 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by jdoiv
And I still haven't figured out why they haven't legalized and taxed the sh!t out of pot yet. I bet that would put a dent in the old deficit....
That and a welcome relief to the prison system, in my small town they have a known rapists on home arrest (pffft) and the county jail is full of personal drug prisoners. That is just not right. I bet Bush could pardon all the pot prisoners on his last day and "fix" the national deficit, lol. I'm not even a fan of pot

Of course the unemployment rate would go up as far as DEA agents go LOL
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Old 10-31-2007, 07:39 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by wortmonger
That and a welcome relief to the prison system, in my small town they have a known rapists on home arrest (pffft) and the county jail is full of personal drug prisoners. That is just not right. I bet Bush could pardon all the pot prisoners on his last day and "fix" the national deficit, lol. I'm not even a fan of pot
I think a lot of it has to do with concern for public safety. Look what happened to tobacco - all the crap that's added to it prior to being turned into a Marlboro. Pot isn't addictive now (yeah, right!) but let Winston-Salem have a go at it and it will be.

Plus, you have to think about the DWI factor. People LOVE driving and smoking. When there's no recourse against it, what's to stop people from rolling a Q into one doober and smoking it in a residential neighborhood?

Finally, won't someone please think of the children! A lot of people (myself included) would feel very guilty about getting high in front of their children. Unfortunately, a lot of people feel no guilt about this and the only thing preventing them from blunten parenting is fear that their kid will narc them out.

Besides, pot's not exactly illegal. They don't issue search warrants for dime bags. They're not going to break your door down because your neighbor smells skunky smoke. The law is basically "Smoke it, but do it at home."
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Old 10-31-2007, 08:39 PM   #30
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www.heaterallen.com 20 gallons at a time.

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