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Old 08-09-2006, 06:37 PM   #51
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I have done this method several times with great success. One thing to keep in mind though and that is the order in which beers are pitched onto the yeast cakes of previous batches is important. What I mean by that is you wouldn't want to pitch a beer with an OG of 1.050 onto the yeast cake from an Imperial Stout that had an OG of 1.090. The yeast would be tuckered out and stressed. You also would probably not want to pitch a light American ale onto the yeast cake of a smoked porter, for fear of imparting the strong character of the porter into the lighter flavored and colored American ale. You get the idea.

The last time I did this I pitched a Russian Imperial Stout with an OG of 1.090 onto the yeast cake from a Creme Stout that had an OG of 1.060. I pitched the yeast at 6:00 pm, and had a krausen in full blow off by 10:00 pm! It was the most violent fermentation that I have experienced so far.



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Old 08-09-2006, 07:46 PM   #52
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Don't mean to hijack the thread... but...

How do you like those Better Bottles? Are they 6 gal? I was thinking of picking up one or two to replace my 7gal plastic bucket and 5gal glass carboy as primary and secondary.

Is it worth having the spigot on there?

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Old 08-09-2006, 10:11 PM   #53
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I just racked my Doppelbock to secondary yesterday, and since the yeast cake was WY2206 Bavarian Lager, the same yeast that my Helles recipe calls for, I decided to use the cake for that beer. But the Doppelbock trub has lots of chocolate malt aroma and whatnot, and I didn't want this to taint the beer, so I washed the yeast first. I ended up with about 2 quarts of good yeast and pitched one of those into the Helles. Within 4 hours, we had liftoff! By hour number 10, there was a good 2-3 inch layer of krausen. I placed the fermenter in the beer fridge and started lowering the temp. (the doppelbock is still at room temp, but will go in the fridge when I get home...)

I had never washed yeast before, but it seems like an easy relatively quick way to save some bucks. My hint, use distilled water. Waiting for the boiled water to cool is kinda a pain in the ARSE.

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Old 08-09-2006, 11:28 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryser2k
Don't mean to hijack the thread... but...

How do you like those Better Bottles? Are they 6 gal? I was thinking of picking up one or two to replace my 7gal plastic bucket and 5gal glass carboy as primary and secondary.

Is it worth having the spigot on there?
I love them, and use them exclusively now. I have two 6 gallon for primary and two 5 gallon for secondary. The racking adapters and high flow valves are a must, IMHO. If you would like some more info, feel free to PM me.

John
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:17 AM   #55
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The yeast fitness mutation rate is fairly low but spontaneous mutation do happen in fungi; not as often as bacteria but it happens. The storage method of yeast, the media(food) it is grown up on for storage and how long it is quiescent a 4Celsius all affect the yeast. The fact that one must vent the storage vessel in the refrigerator periodically indicates the yeast are continuing to grow. If the yeast are stored in water and they're trying to survive on little to no nutrient then alternative gene pathways are turned on and others shut down or down regulated all affecting the flavour profile of that yeast. Then we toss them into a sugar rich wort with all kinds of yeast nutrients, we're just asking for spontaneous mutations to result. A better method for storing yeast is to take your slurry and make glycerol/glycerine, or DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) stocks and store them in the freezer. 2 milliliters or about 1/2 teaspoon stocks store easily in the freezer and you can make tons of them. Simply remove, thaw slowly on ice, and pour into 1 liter of sterilized wort to get a starter. Not too much trouble but you'll maintain the desire flavor profile.

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Old 08-13-2006, 10:53 PM   #56
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I was reading this the other day, and it seemed there was a bit of confusion about yeast washing, so I took some pics of the process I used for some White Labs WLP029 German Ale/Kolsch yeast. Sterilization is KEY! I use StarSan primarily, wear rubber gloves, flame the mouths of all glass containers, and avoid breathing directly into or onto any of the equipment. Here goes:

First I harvested some of the yeast/trub cake at the bottom of the primary fermenter, put it into a sterile White Labs vial, and let it settle.



Then I made a one cup starter in a 1L Erlenmeyer flask with 1 oz of light DME and 1/4 tsp of ID Carlson's Yeast Energizer (boiled and cooled). I shook the top third of the harvest back into solution, trying to avoid disturbing the coagulated protein mass at the bottom. I pitched that top third into my 1 cup starter and placed it on my stirplate overnight.



I stepped the starter up to 3 cups by adding 2 cups of water boiled with 2 oz of light DME and 1/2 tsp of the yeast nutrient. The solution remained on the stirplate for another 2 days before I cooled it in the refrigerator and let it settle.



I poured the liquid off, leaving the "washed" yeast at the bottom of the flask.
In order to easily pour the yeast, I added just a little bit of sterilized (boiled and cooled) water and swirled the flask. I wound up with two vials like this:



Hope this helps clear up the process. Sorry if that was a bit of a long post.

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Old 08-13-2006, 11:14 PM   #57
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Forgot...I did not use an acid wash in the process above. I am reasonably assured of my sanitation and I wound up with a pretty homogenous solution.

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Old 08-14-2006, 09:02 AM   #58
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I saw on a flier/etc... at my LHBS that the Rogue brewery is getting together with WYeast and selling it's PAC MAN yeast from september through october. Limited availablity of their yeast strain. My brain instantly thought of this thread. Sure, saving a few bucks and reuse of yeast is fun, but to do it to a yeast that you can't get all the time would be really sweet!(Dead Guy Ale clone HERE I COME!!!!) Also when I was there I skimmed an article on freezing yeast. It says that if you just toss it in the freezer it will rupture the cells of the yeast killing it all unless you add your yeast to a 30% solution of glycerine to prevent that from happening. Think I might be making a stirr plate soon, playing with some flame and goofin with starters and yeast propagation, just got to get AG capable first.... (think I am noticing an off taste that you can't aviod with extract. I'm not sure if there is one but there is one flavor that is the same in all my brews that isn't in an AG brew I had a few days ago.... I swear it's cause all I have done is extract. someone please tell me I'm not crazy. hehehe, well, for thinking that anyhow. Everyone knows I'm buckets of crackers!)

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Old 08-14-2006, 02:18 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimsawyer
...
Also when I was there I skimmed an article on freezing yeast. It says that if you just toss it in the freezer it will rupture the cells of the yeast killing it all unless you add your yeast to a 30% solution of glycerine to prevent that from happening. ...
There was a post above by runhard reguarding this. I would be interested in more information, myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimsawyer
...
think I am noticing an off taste that you can't aviod with extract. I'm not sure if there is one but there is one flavor that is the same in all my brews that isn't in an AG brew I had a few days ago.... I swear it's cause all I have done is extract. someone please tell me I'm not crazy. ...
There is a slight "twang" associated with extract brewing. The better your methods are, the easier it is to minimize this effect. But even with the best methods it remains slightly.
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Old 08-14-2006, 04:21 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri_Rage
I was reading this the other day, and it seemed there was a bit of confusion about yeast washing, so I took some pics of the process I used for some White Labs WLP029 German Ale/Kolsch yeast. Sterilization is KEY! I use StarSan primarily, wear rubber gloves, flame the mouths of all glass containers, and avoid breathing directly into or onto any of the equipment. Here goes:

First I harvested some of the yeast/trub cake at the bottom of the primary fermenter, put it into a sterile White Labs vial, and let it settle.



Then I made a one cup starter in a 1L Erlenmeyer flask with 1 oz of light DME and 1/4 tsp of ID Carlson's Yeast Energizer (boiled and cooled). I shook the top third of the harvest back into solution, trying to avoid disturbing the coagulated protein mass at the bottom. I pitched that top third into my 1 cup starter and placed it on my stirplate overnight.



I stepped the starter up to 3 cups by adding 2 cups of water boiled with 2 oz of light DME and 1/2 tsp of the yeast nutrient. The solution remained on the stirplate for another 2 days before I cooled it in the refrigerator and let it settle.



I poured the liquid off, leaving the "washed" yeast at the bottom of the flask.
In order to easily pour the yeast, I added just a little bit of sterilized (boiled and cooled) water and swirled the flask. I wound up with two vials like this:



Hope this helps clear up the process. Sorry if that was a bit of a long post.

That stirplate really worked wonders, I just did a traditional starter, I did shake it frequently, and I got about half of what you did. I need to get one of those stir plates..
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