Why propogate yeast?

I've read countless blogs about this subject and I just can't seem to wrap my head around it. Why go through all the trouble to culture yeast and save it for later? Granted, I always make a starter but personally I am always brewing something completely different from batch to batch and hardly ever use the same yeast. Additionally, it seems like too much trouble and clutter in my fridge and cabinets just to save a few bucks, and I'm a poor college student! I spend three times that amount every week on Copenhagen. Whats another 5 bones every other week? Is anyone with me on this? Am I missing some benefits by not cultering yeast and saving it for future batches? Someone enlighten me.

I suppose it depends on your brewing preferences. I will be brewing a great deal of wheats, wheatbocks, wits, and a variety of stouts - so it would be in my best interest to cultivate a hefe strain and an irish ale strain. I am learning to brew on a schedule where pitch a new batch into the primary when the existing batch is transferred into the secondary. My goal is to be beerless no more. You have two options - If you brew something different everytime you will have to buy new yeast everytime. Or you could schedule some similar brews and get 2-3 batches out of one vial.

Advantages:

Allows you to pitch very large amounts of yeast
Saves some money (show of good faith to SWMBO?)
Gives you one more thing to putz around with.

I do dometimes end up throwing yeast out if I don't brew anything else that uses that yeast soon enough. But it seems like most brewers would have at least one or two strains that they'd use often enough for it to be useful.

Assuming you already know how to wash yeast, here's what I do:

Once all the sediment is gone I usually have enough yeast/water solution to fill 2 - 1/2 liter bottles.

I place them in the fridge with aluminum foil over the top of the bottles.

Once the yeast falls out I pour off most of the water from one bottle and shake (to mix) the the remaining water/yeast and pour it into a sanitized baby food jar (we have a fairly new greatgrandson) and put the lid on it.

I repeat the process for the second 1/2 liter bottle and label them with the yeast style, date, and which batch I got it from and/or which batches I've already used it in.

Now I have 2 yeasts that I can reuse to make starters with. The jars take up less room than a bottle when stacked.

One vial of yeast costs between $5.95 and $7.95 If I reuse it only once my cost is cut in half. Eventually I can reuse it so the cost is under a $1.00 for each batch.

I usually only use dry yeast once since it is already under a $1.00 although I have some that's about $1.45.

One benefit to having more yeast around than you can use is you can make a starter whenever you want and don't have to make a special trip to the local HBS.

I've woken up in the middle of the night and decided I wanted to brew something the following day. This way I can make a starter at 2 AM so I could brew the next evening after work.

Right now I have 9 vials of yeast in my fridge as well as a smak-pak, 7 baby food jars of assorted yeasts and about a dozen dry packets...and yes, if I get a hair up my butt to make a certain brew I may not even have the yeast I need for it...it happens sometimes.

I buy my hops by the pound and my malt in 55# boxes.

If I'm going to drink I'm going to be prepared for it.

I know I may or may not sway your decision to save your yeast and in effect save you $$$ in the process, but my explanation may help someone else out there who has more desire to brew than $$$ for (reusable) supplies.

Later...

Some people do it because they are cheap, some do it to have something else to fiddle with, some like to recover yeasts that are not available commercially. If you are only doing two batches a month and vary styles, why bother? But there are guys locally that are doing three or four batches a week, buy their grain in 50 lb bags, have seperate walk-in fermentation and lagering rooms and get propane delivered in bulk.

These people need a hobby!

i save it since my local hbs only has dry yeast and i have to mail order liquid on line.
if i only order yeast its 8.00 for the yeast and 10.00 for shipping so i need to use it at least twice to keep the cost reasonable.
this site has spoiled me for using dry yeast - the flavour of the hobgoblin clone brewed with the liquid wyeast is so much better than the first version brewed with nottingham dry.
in fact the nottingham version really tastes nothing like hobgoblin- just an interesting ale with a spicy finish(clove-like?)

david_42 said:

Some people do it because they are cheap, some do it to have something else to fiddle with, some like to recover yeasts that are not available commercially. If you are only doing two batches a month and vary styles, why bother? But there are guys locally that are doing three or four batches a week, buy their grain in 50 lb bags, have seperate walk-in fermentation and lagering rooms and get propane delivered in bulk.

These people need a hobby!

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I thought THIS SITE was our hobby? ...dang, lost again...I should never have trusted that drunk dog to take me to the right place...

I have a 60 mile round trip to my LHBS, and they usually only have one or two sachets of suitable yeast. If I didn't reuse the yeast, my brews would cost a lot more when factoring in the traveling. Of course, I could mail order some and pay for express delivery and special packaging in the summer, and then try to explain to SWMBO why I need the yeast when I have several packets of dried yeast (for emergencies) in the fridge.
Admittedly, I tend to brew bitters and pale ales more often than not, so one variety of yeast is going to be suitable for multiple brews, which doesn't seem to be the case for you.

-a.

When I first started brewing I used to pour my yeast down the drain every time. I thought the yeast sediment was garbage. At least it looked and smelled that way.

Then I did some research and found out about washing. It made much more sense to me after that.

Reusing my yeasts has allowed me to buy more equipment, etc.

As an added benefit, my frugal wife totally understands and backs me reusing my yeast as long as it's saving us $$$.

It all adds up. If you are brewing more than once a week reusing your yeast will pay for whole batchs of beer in short order. I keep about ten strains of yeast going at any time and only buy yeast about once a year. I spend about $.25 on yeast per batch and about $7-8 for grain, this keeps the cost under $2 per gal for all grain goodness. If you brew alot like I do (400 to 500 gallons per year) it makes a big difference in cost.

Once I get my fridge I'd thought about leaving some in the White labs vial and adding cooled wort to the vial think that would work? just grow a new vial each time when making a starter?

budbo said:

Once I get my fridge I'd thought about leaving some in the White labs vial and adding cooled wort to the vial think that would work? just grow a new vial each time when making a starter?

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You will get better results making a starter then putting some of it back in the vial. Instead of putting some wort in the vial with some of the yeast still in it.

Jsin said:

You will get better results making a starter then putting some of it back in the vial. Instead of putting some wort in the vial with some of the yeast still in it.

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...but because there are unfermented sugar in starters you'll have to vent the pressure off. Sometimes so much pressure is built up that you have to use a pair of pliers to get the cap off.

This is one reason why you should wash your yeast. If you refill your vials the sediment and beer is washed off of the yeast and the only fluid left in there is water.

Some of us can only get liquid yeast on-line and for me it is expensive enough that it makes cents (pun intended) for me to reuse and store yeast so that my inventory isn't wanting. Besides, it's fun watching a test tube of saved yeast come alive in a starter and be pitched into a brew only to be recycled again.

Rod... you wouldn't have a recipie for the hobgoblin would you?

Hey, anyone have a 'how to' link on harvesting, rinsing, and starting yeast.
I want to try a Chimay style, all grain, next.

Thanks

Sean

http://www.ebrew.com/primarynews/yeast_starter_beer.htm and http://brewery.org/brewery/library/YstCult.html should get you started

Thank You

boo boo - i found the recipe using a search in the recipes section.
sorry - i don't know how to make a link to it
but i was able to copy and paste

this is the one i used
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I pay around £6 ~ $10 for 4x500ml, the only problem is the bottles (very nice) are not reusable.

The recipe is from a AU site. I'm tempted to try a partial mash on this one.

(5 gallons)
OG =1.059 FG =1.016 SRM = 17.5 IBU = 28

6 oz. British crystal malt (55° Lovibond)
1 oz. British chocolate malt
0.5 oz. British black malt
6.5 lbs. Munton's extra light dry malt extract (DME)
4 oz. malto dextrin
7 AAUs Progress bittering hops (1 oz. of 7% alpha acid)
3.4 AAUs Styrian Goldings flavour hops (0.66 oz. of 5% alpha acid)
2.5 AAUs Styrian Goldings aroma hops (0.5 oz. of 5% alpha acid)
1 tsp. Irish moss
London Ale yeast (Wyeast 1028) or English Ale yeast (White Labs WLP002) edit - i used wyeast 1187 ringwood ale
0.75 cup corn sugar for priming


Method
Heat 1 gallon of water to 155° F. Add grain and steep at 150° F for 30 minutes. Strain the grain water into the brew pot. Sparge the grains with 0.5 gallons of 150° F water. Add the malt extracts, malto dextrin and bittering hops. Add water until the total volume is 2.5 gallons. Boil for 45 minutes then add 0.66 oz. of Styrian Goldings flavour hops and Irish moss. Boil for 13 minutes and add 0.5 oz. of Styrian Goldings hops. Boil for 2 minutes. Remove the pot from the stove and cool for 15 minutes. Strain the cooled wort into the primary fermenter and add cold water to obtain 5 gallons. When the wort is below 80° F, pitch the yeast and aerate well. Ferment in the primary at 68° to 72° F for 5 to 7 days.

Rack to the secondary and let ferment at 70° F for 2.5 to 3 weeks until target gravity is reached. Bottle and let prime at 70° to 72° F for 2 weeks. Store at cellar temperature. Serve in a pint glass at 50° F.

Partial-Mash Option

Mash 2 lbs. Maris Otter two-row pale malt with specialty grains at 150° F for 90 minutes. Then follow the extract recipe, omitting 1.5 lb. Munton's extra light dry malt extract at the beginning of the boil.

All-Grain Option

Mash 10.75 lbs. Maris Otter two-row pale malt with the specialty grains at 150° F for 90 minutes. Add 5.3 AAU Progress bittering hop (24% less than the extract recipe) for 90 minutes. Add the Irish moss, flavour and aroma hops as indicated in the extract recipe.
one i used

Why does a dog lick it's balls. Because he can.

I agree, that after adding up the additional cost for yeast culturing (including the DME that most brewers use for starters, there is not much financial return for the added risk of infection. But as others already metioned, it gives you a chance to get familiar with yeast and it is just another brewing thing to tinker around with.

Kai

Thanks for your input everyone. Between school and work, sometimes its hard to find time to brew. I might pump out 5 or six batches one month and then not brew again for another month. I guess the only thing for to do is try it and see how it works out for me. My LBHS has a wide liquid yeast selection and is only 5 min. away(apparently i'm spoiled by this) but if you all swear by how much you save its definitely worth a shot. Thanks again all.

just had another late night thought. Wait scratch that, its 7am. Another early morning thought. What about creating hybrid yeast strains? Now that idea really gets me motivated to farm some yeast. Anyone have experience doing this? is it difficult or tremendously time consuming?

BadKarmaa said:

just had another late night thought. Wait scratch that, its 7am. Another early morning thought. What about creating hybrid yeast strains? Now that idea really gets me motivated to farm some yeast. Anyone have experience doing this? is it difficult or tremendously time consuming?

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What do you mean with hybrid yeast strains?

Kai

are you talking about mixing 2 strains to develop a better super yeast

With all the existing variants of yeast available for sale, I'm not about to complicate my choices further by mixing cultures. The exception here is that I will generally use another yeast if the brew stalls out on fermentation. Then it is often the dry yeast of last resorts.

Gee, but I'm glad I didn't give up on this pilsner and pour it all down the drain. Time really does seem to be the best cure for what might be considered a bad batch. With warmer temperatures, my lager and pilsner is over until November. But I reccommend trying lager and pilsner during the winter months if your temperatures will stay down in the 50's.

Thanks for that recipie Rod.
Hijack over.

rod said:

are you talking about mixing 2 strains to develop a better super yeast

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Exactly! Granted there are a ton of different yeast out there to choose from but what if you wanted your batch to have specific characteristics found in two or 3 yeasts and could cancel out undesirable characteristics from them as well. That would be ssaawwweeett! :rockin:

I understand where you are coming from, BUT what do you do when the two yeasts prefer different ends of the temp scale?

Do you let it ferment at the higher temps for 3 days and the lower temps for 4 then rack to the secondary and move it to a different range again?

I would think since ALL the yeast is still alive (some more active than others) that you would have too many off flavors from the temp changes.

Unless I'm eating a Banana Split I know the banana flavor from my wiezen will never merge with the diacytl (butterscotch) of another yeast and taste good.

Just something to think about...but then again, if you want to try it I'm right behind you all the way... ...what's in the brew pot?

I'm not certain but I think that one of the yeast strains in a hybrid mix would out compete the other due to having optimal growth conditions met, even if slightly better. If a mix was 50:50 and one of the strains hit log phase before the other strain then the second strain would never have a chance to reach log phase and remain in lag before the other hit plateau. It would be a nice experiment to conduct if the yeast strains had distinct morphologies...could just look under the microscope to see which strain was most predominant. Yeast will adapt to certain growth conditions after a certain number of passages so to create a yeast strain all one must do is wait long enough for the desirable mutations to take effect.

runhard said:

I'm not certain but I think that one of the yeast strains in a hybrid mix would out compete the other due to having optimal growth conditions met, even if slightly better. If a mix was 50:50 and one of the strains hit log phase before the other strain then the second strain would never have a chance to reach log phase and remain in lag before the other hit plateau. It would be a nice experiment to conduct if the yeast strains had distinct morphologies...could just look under the microscope to see which strain was most predominant. Yeast will adapt to certain growth conditions after a certain number of passages so to create a yeast strain all one must do is wait long enough for the desirable mutations to take effect.

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...didn't I just say that???...

May I please hijack - so all I have got to do is suck the trub into some pop-top bottles and place them in the fridge until I am ready to brew again - then I just bring it up to room temp make a starter with it and pitch as per any other yeast?

NEPABREWER said:

May I please hijack - so all I have got to do is suck the trub into some pop-top bottles and place them in the fridge until I am ready to brew again - then I just bring it up to room temp make a starter with it and pitch as per any other yeast?

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Basically, but not exactly. I'd wash the yeast first to get it clean. Do a search on this forum on the subject...

When everyone talks about washing yeast, are you using acid to bring PH to 2.1 or just rinsing to get let the sediment settle and float?

Most of the references to homebrewers washing yeast is merely rinsing yeast like you assume.

PseudoChef said:

Most of the references to homebrewer's washing yeast is merely rinsing yeast like you assume.

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Agreed. But, I've started using Potable Aqua tablets when harvesting yeast to kill off any bacteria in the slurry.

flyangler18 said:

Agreed. But, I've started using Potable Aqua tablets when harvesting yeast to kill off any bacteria in the slurry.

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Care to elaborate on your process for this?

PseudoChef said:

Care to elaborate on your process for this?

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Quite simple, really. I use one tablet for the water used to wash the slurry. It does require 4-hour contact time with the slurry, however.