Left the hops and trub behind...

I usually dump all the trub and hops into the fermentor and I get a very vigorous fermentation and excellent hop aroma but waste probably a half a gallon of fermentor space to trub and always lose some beer from the blow off.

I decided to let the trub settle in the whirlpool and leave it in the brew pot to get a much cleaner wort with less trub loss and a little more head room in my 5 gallon carboy to avoid the blow off waste.

The fermentation started a little slower and was less aggressive and I didn't need the blow off tube. It finished in about 4 days per usual. So far so good.

The biggest difference is that I noticed a significant reduction on hop aroma. It's a Pale Ale so I may have to increase my dry hopping to compensate. Next time I may use two 5 gallon carboys and split an 8 gallon batch keeping all the trub and hop waste while still getting the extra head space.

Has anyone else noticed a loss of hop aroma and a less vigorous fermentation when leaving the hops and trub on the brew pot?

I think you're better off leaving the trub and hops in the kettle. The trub can give you off flavors if left in there during fermentation. I've found that dry hopping or making a hop tea give much better aroma anyway.

After 4 years of brewing I haven't had any off flavors from the trub as others have mentioned. I don't like the fresh "green" hoppy flavor you get from dry hopping in some types of beer. It's good in an IPA or Pale Ale but I prefer the subtle hoppy aroma I was getting from late kettle additions when I included the trub in my Ambers and beers where I want some hop aroma but it's out of style like a cream ale or Irish Red. I also think the amino acids and proteins from the trub may have aided fermentation. I think I will compromise and include some of the hoppy trub in those beers.

Anyone else have this practice?

The last pale ale I did take the trub out came out pretty awful actually. Since then I just pour from my boiling pot (3 gallon batches) and am careful to leave the bulk of it out, but whatever gets in gets in and my last beer done that way was one of my best (had trub and hop particulate).

I've never transferred the trub until my last brew. I'll let you know

In Greg Noonan's book he talks about dry hopping and he agrees that it's good for IPA, APA etc. But for pilsners or lighter ales it's better to make a hop tea because it has a much better result than dry hopping. I have yet to experiment with this but plan to give it a whirl as soon as I get my fermentation chamber built for the conical! Looking forward to making lagers in the Summer!

I've typically always left the trub behind too, but on this last batch I split a 10 gallon Oktoberfest between myself and a friend. I think without trub I was only getting about 4 gallons of clear wort, so I wound up just transferring the rest of the trub which was about another 0.5 gallon. So I only had 4.5 gallons total, and literally the ale pail just about blew its top during fermentation (even though it was at 58 degrees with a Kolsch yeast strain). I pitched a nice starter, but I figured the good amount of head space wouldn't require a blow off tube. I was wrong. I made sure and put one in just in time, but for sure I have noticed the fermentation this time is far more aggressive than my typical brews.

This podcast http://hw.libsyn.com/p/9/f/e/9fe3c8...35815910&hwt=e95847af962be0bad7f50d2b55ecabff discusses removing or not removing the trub. They pretty much decided it makes very little difference, but possibly a little better it the trub goes into the fermenter. Also, healthier fermentations. I usually transfer the trub to the fermenter and like the results.

An opinion about hop aroma - I like the aroma and flavor from a 30 minute hop stand starting at about 180F - hops added at flameout.

Give this a read, it's pretty much exactly what you were talking about: http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/02/the-great-trub-exbeeriment-results-are-in/

I used to try to leave all of the trub in the kettle, but recently I've just been dumping everything into the fermenter and I haven't noticed any differences. I feel like I end up with more beer by dumping the trub into the fermenter and letting it settle out over time.

Here's an easy experiment that I've done. Take some of that extra gallon or more of trub and wort that gets left behind in the kettle. Stir it up and pitch some yeast on some of it in a one gallon jug. After fermentation is complete, compare the taste of that to your main batch. That's what you're adding to your beer when you dump it all in the fermenter. Personally, I thought the bottom runnings had a slight vegetal, astringent and green beer flavor that the top runnings did not have. I’m sure that recipe and technique play into this, so you’ll have to try it for yourself.

I've done both ways, never really noticed a difference either way, but I wasn't exactly being scientific about it.

I generally try to leave as much of it behind as I can, but if some trub makes it into the fermenter (some always does) I'm not going to sweat it one bit.

peterj said:

Give this a read, it's pretty much exactly what you were talking about: http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/02/the-great-trub-exbeeriment-results-are-in/

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That link is great - thanks for posting.

Ncbrewer I couldn't get the link to work.

ncbrewer said:

This podcast http://hw.libsyn.com/p/9/f/e/9fe3c8...35815910&hwt=e95847af962be0bad7f50d2b55ecabff discusses removing or not removing the trub.

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Thanks Perterj for the great link, just what I was looking for...

peterj said:

Give this a read, it's pretty much exactly what you were talking about: http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/02/the-great-trub-exbeeriment-results-are-in/

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bigdaddybrew said:

Thanks Perterj for the great link, just what I was looking for...

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Yes, that was a good read, but you might want to consider that the trub content of a small, lightly hopped beer like a Cream Ale may not have the same effect on finished beer as other styles.

Do you think that dried citrus fruit peels left in the trub from the boil would have a negative impact?

I've never used citrus peels. Maybe it would add more aroma? Anyone leave the boiled peels in?

AnOldUR said:

Yes, that was a good read, but you might want to consider that the trub content of a small, lightly hopped beer like a Cream Ale may not have the same effect on finished beer as other styles.

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Cream Ales are one of my favorite styles and I always dump all trub into the fermentor however hoppinesss is not usually part of these recipes so there is not a lot of hop particles. I think I will compromise and keep some of the hoppy/trub especially in my hoppy recipes.

I think you can cover up a lot of off flavors with hops and dark malts. I would like to see his experiment done with a light lager. At 12 IBU's there's nothing to hide behind!

tootal said:

I think you can cover up a lot of off flavors with hops and dark malts. I would like to see his experiment done with a light lager. At 12 IBU's there's nothing to hide behind!

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He did it with a cream ale. Probably around 12 IBU.

tootal said:

I think you can cover up a lot of off flavors with hops and dark malts.

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Just speculating here, but I would think that’s true of hiding bad brewing practices (pitch rate, temperature control . . .), but given all that being done properly, I’d think that the less hops and trub produced by lighter styles would also mean that transferring them to the fermenter would have less of an impact on the finished beer.

bigdaddybrew said:

Ncbrewer I couldn't get the link to work.

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It doesn't work any more for me either. I made some notes, FWIW:

CHRIS COLBY: If the trub contains hops, there will be tannins in it. Could cause astringency.
TEST RESULTS – Results were split on whether it tastes, looks, & smells better with the trub or without.
Votes leaned toward healthier fermentation if trub is not removed. Colby said this makes sense because there is evidence trub in fermenter helps fermentation.
One tester: Kreusen was cleaner with trub removed, and he likes the flavor better. The host tasted this beer and liked the trub beer better.
The host found that the final beer was clearer when trub was left in – cleared sooner, also. Repeat test was the same.
Colby’s opinion:
With trub clearer
Tasted better
A little harsher hop bitterness
Host: Without trub – a little more fruity. Maybe shows the hop flavor rather than bitterness. Liked the one with the trub better. Not a major difference.
CONCLUSION: Loading up the fermenter with trub does not ruin the beer – probably will be at least as good. Very little difference. This seems to be mostly personal preference.