I knew I should've made a starter!

Okay, I pitched White Labs #WLP400 Belgian Wit yesterday on my OG 1.048 72ºF wort at about 2pm. Just checked it now at about 10am, and it's got zero activity after 20 hours. Now, when I used the #WLP500 Trappist Ale with a starter, it seemed to take forever to show any signs of activity in the starter, but it foamed over the first night I had it in the actual brew.

Does anyone have any experience with this yeast? Is it just a slower starter as well? I figure I'm still in the RDWHAHB time frame, but this is the first time I'm seen absolutely no activity after 20 hours. Any thought?

Give it at least 30 hours until you hit the panic button. Do you have any yeast for backup?

I dont have any experience with that strain so I cant help you there

I don't have any yeast, but the LHBS is only 3500 feet away from my apartment. I did think of one other thing. When I bought the yeast about two week ago, the guy at the store shook it up before giving it to me, which bugged me at the time.

I kept it in the fridge until yesterday when I got it out before brewing, but would shaking it up two weeks early mess it up? I also had it in my truck for about an hour before I got back home to rechill it, although I had a cooling pack laying against it to keep it from getting super warm.

I'm just concerned because no other brew I've done has had no activity the morning after before.

I used #550 a few months ago and pitched it with out a starter...it took about 30-35 hours (guesstimate) to get going but it turned out fine. Next time I use a White Labs strain, I am going to use a starter.

Yeah, I used a starter both other times I used White Labs, but they say you don't HAVE to, and I was pressed for time/lazy, so I just tossed it in there. I'll see how it looks after work tonight.

Joseph,

If you recall my panic over my Cranberry Dubbel, I pitched Wyeast 1214 directly into the wort from a SmackPack...and it sat for 3 whole days before it did anything. Turned out to be a great beer, though. Chimone says 30 hours, but I'm living proof that 3 day lagtime, while not advisable or preferable, can still be fine.

Interestingly, I love that yeast so much (despite the heartburn it gave me, it produces excellent spicy/barnyardy subtleties) that I harvested it and kept it in my lagerator for a couple months. When I brewed my English Brune Abbey last Friday, I made a starter for the harvested 1214 the day before...and my lagtime ended up around 3 hours, rather than 3 days.

Wow Evan, 3 days? I doubt i would of had the patience to wait that long before going through my keg fridge to see what kind of dry yeast I had in there.

Yeah, dude...no doubt, I was pushing the envelope. I was pulling my hair out by the end of it. But, see, it was a Belgian, and a Belgian ain't a Belgian without crazy yeasts...so I didn't wanna throw US-56 or something in there, you know? I know the brewmaster at a local brewpub, and he is always happy to give me yeast from his bigass conicals. However, I brewed on Friday, and he's not around on weekends. So, I waited until Monday, stopped by to see him, and since he didn't have any Belgian yeast, he gave me a crazy yeast mix of Hefe, Ale and Lager yeast. When I got home to pitch it...the 1214 had started!

The story ends well...I used the crazy yeast mix a few days later in my Honey Ginger Winter Warmer, and that has turned out to be one of my best beers yet.

Shaking the vile 2 weeks prior should have nothing to do with your problem...

On a personal experience note, I used the exact same strand without a starter before. It took about 30 hours to start, but the beer ended up fine...

Evan! said:

Joseph,

If you recall my panic over my Cranberry Dubbel, I pitched Wyeast 1214 directly into the wort from a SmackPack...and it sat for 3 whole days before it did anything. Turned out to be a great beer, though. Chimone says 30 hours, but I'm living proof that 3 day lagtime, while not advisable or preferable, can still be fine.

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Thanks for the reassurance. The interesting thing is, when I pitched the Trappist Ale yeast into the starter, it didn't do anything for almost three days. It only finally started showing signs of activity about six hours before I pitched it into the wort. But it blew up like crazy after that.

SilkkyBrew said:

On a personal experience note, I used the exact same strand without a starter before. It took about 30 hours to start, but the beer ended up fine...

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And THAT is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Being a brewer requires Jedi-like patience.

I just used this yeast a few weeks ago. I believe I had less than a 24 hour lagtime. I pitched straight from the vial, pulled the yeast out about an hour or two before pitching. I always drop a little in a starter to harvest and keep some yeast, and both did great.

Oh and by a little I mean I put a couple drops of the slurry in the vial to the starter and... WOW this yeast went crazy within one day!

I did swirl the wort a couple times during fermentation to kick start it, and I do remember swirling it a couple times before the fermentation really started to rumble.

I agree though, your in the RDWHAH window still.

So you think a little swirling now, at +24hrs, would be okay? I'm not in an oxidation risk scenario? I think I'm getting about 5-10 bubbles per hour.

Being a brewer requires Jedi-like patience

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excitement and adventure a brewer craves not...

i've noticed that the trappist yeast and the belgian wit both take ages to get going if you don't have a starter...

My wit is going to town now, but I used WLP-410 Belgian Wit II. I did use a starter, but the starter is what took a while to start. It sat for at least a day and a half before showing signs of life.

Yeah, I'm annoyed, but not panicky. It seems you need the tranquil spirit of a monk to properly brew a belgian ale. Guess I should go meditate.

Well, I just got home from work, and checked on it. At 36+ hours after pitching, it's still pretty much nothing. There's not much I can do in the middle of the night about it, but if it's still dead tomorrow when I get up, I'm going to be starting to move into panic mode. Anyone have any more advice/kind words/admonishments?

Torchiest said:

So you think a little swirling now, at +24hrs, would be okay? I'm not in an oxidation risk scenario? I think I'm getting about 5-10 bubbles per hour.

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someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that oxidation is a concern after fermentation is complete.

Okay, at 44 hours, I just went and checked, and it's finally moving! About 10-15 bubbles per minute, and the Krausen is about 2mm thick so far. Not exactly gangbusters, but I'll take it. It appears as though it has just started moving for real just recently, though, so perhaps in six more hours it'll be going strong. Thanks again to everybody for the wisdom and advice.

Torchiest said:

Okay, at 44 hours, I just went and checked, and it's finally moving! About 10-15 bubbles per minute, and the Krausen is about 2mm thick so far. Not exactly gangbusters, but I'll take it. It appears as though it has just started moving for real just recently, though, so perhaps in six more hours it'll be going strong. Thanks again to everybody for the wisdom and advice.

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FWIW, my batch with 550 never seemed to go strong but it did reach my target FG before racking to the secondary.

15 per minute sounds good to me! Glad to hear it started. It should ferment out just fine and give you a great beer...

Funny... I just posted a topic concering a Belgian Wit as well :rockin:

I'm using the WhiteLabs WLP400 as well. I pitched mine at @78F. The temp dropped to about 73F when I saw activity in the fermentation lock, and that was about 18 hours later (it may have started earlier during the night too).

I use this yeast with most of my Wits, and sometimes it does take longer to get going. I've even had one start, then stop, and restart a few days later!

My Wit is now sitting at @ 68F, and bubbling mildly. I keep blankets wrapped around the pail to help keep in some heat, and warm the blankets from time to time, to jolt the yeasts into a more hyper mode for a period of time.

I'm sure it will kick in soon. I've never had a bum WL vile.

5gB

Yeah, it's going at about 30 bubbles per minute now, I'd estimate. It could be that I pitched it at a relatively cool 72ºF, rather than say 78-80ºF. But I'm happy now. Still, I'll definitely be using starters for my WL in the future, just to avoid the (minor) stress of a slow-starting ferment.

EDIT: As of +48hrs, it's up to about 50bpm, and the krausen is almost an inch thick now. What a relief!