Fly Sparge Tips?

I have been using Bobby_M's batch sparge method and getting good results.

SWMBO got me a sparge arm for fathers day so I figured I gotta use it at least once.

I know I will need to do a mash out to get the grain bed up to 170f before sparging and after vourlof I need to match the flow rates leaving about 1" of water above the grain bed.

Does anyone have any other tips or suggestions on things to watch out for.

Just remember where the classified forum is when you sell the sparge arm. DOH!

Bobby_M said:

Just remember where the classified forum is when you sell the sparge arm. DOH!

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LMAO

She usually doesn't watch me brew so maybe I can just set it up so she can see it and then when she goes back inside I can just dump the HLT into the MLT.

You will have to very carefully monitor your sparge liquor temperature during the entire length of the sparge. I suggest gently recirculating your sparge liquor in the HLT with a pump or vigourous stirring. If you use an insulated HLT, once the temperature equalizes - after five or so minutes of recirculation - you just have to check the temperature periodically.

You should also check the temperature of the sparge liquor after it exits the sparge arm. This should be done with hot water only. Warm the lauter-tun before starting to run the sparge, record the temperature in the HLT at start, and test the temperature of the sparge water as it sits in the lauter-tun. I think you'll find a significant loss of heat from the spraying for which you'll have to adjust your sparge liquor temperature.

Cheers!

Bob

What do you have in the bottom of the MLT? and what shape is the MLT?
To successfully fly sparge, you need to let the sparge water percolate gently through the grain bed, and be collected over the entire bottom of the MLT. A circular cooler with a false bottom is ideal. If you have a rectangular cooler, or a short braid, you may have problems with channeling.
Take your time. It takes me 60 - 90 minutes to fly sparge 5 gallons (a longer time for heavier beers).

-a.

I haven't ever done a batch sparge, So I really don't know what the hoopla is about. I fly sparge and always have, Not to say I wont try a batch sparge, But what ain't broke I ain't gonna fix. what you want to do is fly sparge over 60 min or more. It doesn't matter if you are doing 5 gallons or 5 hundred gallons. You will need to calculate your sparge time by taking 60 min and dividing that by how many quarts your going to sparge with and that's how fast you need to run your vorlauf. i.e 10 gallons of sparge water divide by 4 to get quarts = 40.. 60 min divided by 40= .66 quarts a minute Keeping the temp above 168-170 is ideal but not a total must. A mash out is also not a must, I haven't done a mash out in 4 years or better. keep a couple of inches of hot water above the grain bed and stir the top 1" at least once throughout the sparge to stop tracking. its easy (like Sunday morning)
Good luck
JJ

ajf said:

What do you have in the bottom of the MLT? and what shape is the MLT?
To successfully fly sparge, you need to let the sparge water percolate gently through the grain bed, and be collected over the entire bottom of the MLT. A circular cooler with a false bottom is ideal. If you have a rectangular cooler, or a short braid, you may have problems with channeling.
Take your time. It takes me 60 - 90 minutes to fly sparge 5 gallons (a longer time for heavier beers).

-a.

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I have 2 10gal. rubbermaid round coolers. I only lose about 2 or 3 degrees in an hour during the mash and I usually adjust for that by getting the mash temp 1 degree higher than I am shooting for. The one I use for the MLT has a 10" braid.

I didn't think about the heat loss from the spray. I may do a trial run with the sparge arm tonight to see what kind of heat loss to expect before I brew in the morning.

Great info. Thanks.

I think the braid might give you problems, but not enough to stop your planned brew. You're definitely going to want a false bottom for the MLT eventually.

Have fun! You're going to make beer no matter what you do!

Bob

One thing I noticed when I moved to a "hybrid" fly sparge is that my beer attenuated more than batch sparging. It's a proven fact that a longer mash rest time will result in your beer fermenting further and getting dryer.

The reason (I suspect) that fly sparging causes higher attenuation is that it's so non-disturbing to the mash, that you're essentially extending the rest time quite substantially.

So, if you're attempting a maltier toned beer, you might cut your rest time down by 15 minutes so you don't end up with an FG of 1.005.

I use my old 5 gallon rubbermaid mash tun for a hot liquor tank during the sparge. I just heat up my sparge water to about 175 and fill the cooler with that. By the time the water hits the grain bed in my main mash tun, the temps are about right.

I gave it a shot and things didn't go so well.

I mashed out and got it to 165 with Beersmiths directions which was pretty close. I figure next time I'll get the mash out water 3 degrees hotter so that should fix that. I added 175F water to the HLT cooler figuring that after the temp settled after losing some heat to the cooler I should be at around 170F.

I had calculated the drain rate and valve positions to be open about 3/4 of the way to give me a 60 min. sparge.

I did the vourlof and started collecting the wort in a 5gal bucket. When I got about 1" above the grain I opened the valve on the HLT cooler to start the sparge. Now the fun begins. The sparge arm spun around twice and then got stuck. I helped it spinning again and after 2 times around it sticks again.

After a few minutes playing around with this thing I decided I better check the water temp coming out and it was 155F. I'm now about 25 minutes into this process and and thinking WTF have I gotten into here.

I stopped everyting and checked the water temp in the cooler and it was 160F. I then realized I had left the top off of the cooler and all the heat was going straight up.

So now I'm thinking abandon ship and finish up the rest with a batch sparge. By now the grain bed temp is about 158F. I had about 3 gal of hot water left in the brew pot which was heated for the sparge water so I fired up the burner and got it to 175F. I drained the remaining wort from the MLT while the water was heating and added 2 gal to finish with the batch sparge.

I collect the 7.5 gal needed for the boil pot in 2 5 gal buckets. Now I'm thinking cool I fixed it and am back on track so I grabbed the first bucket and started pouring it in the boil pot and by the time I realized I hadn't dumped the remaining gallon of hot sparge water from the boil pot and shouting oh Sh@#. I had poured about 3 gal of wort already into the pot.

After a few minutes of cursing I poured the rest in and figured add an extra hour to the boil before any hop additions and I should be good.

We will see how this batch comes out. I think I will go back to batch sparging for a while. Maybe I'll give fly sparging another try in the fall when it won't be 90F on the patio.

I documented this entire disaster in the beersmith recipe just in case this turns out to be the best batch ever

WELCOME TO AG!!!!! You just gotta love it!!!!! Brother you made BEER!! There is no doubt your going to be just fine. the sparge is not that big of a deal. Congrats on the brew!!
JJ

I tried the sparge arm and for me on a 5 gallon batch, my flow rate was so slow it wouldn't spin. I abandoned it after 1 try. I now use a manifold laying on top of the grain.

I have never used a sparge arm, so I can't say what was wrong there, but fly sparging is super easy, easier than batch IMHO. Don't get down on it, just pour water in and drain wort out, it really is that easy. Next time, heat your sparge water to ~180, that works well for me.

I am sure your beer will be fine. One of my best beers came out of a crazy brewday with all sorts of mistakes.

missing link said:

I tried the sparge arm and for me on a 5 gallon batch, my flow rate was so slow it wouldn't spin. I abandoned it after 1 try. I now use a manifold laying on top of the grain.

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I tested the sparge arm with cold water at the flow rate that I came up with and it spun just fine. It started sticking when I ran the hot water through it.

I'll try running a few gallons of hot water through it to see if it will loosen up a bit. Or maybe if anyone knows a good way to lubricate it.

This is the one that I have.

ive been a long time batch sparger, but Ive gone the way of the fly now and Im not looking back.

just keep that grainbed covered with about a 1/2" of water and you're good

Chimone said:

ive been a long time batch sparger, but Ive gone the way of the fly now and Im not looking back.

just keep that grainbed covered with about a 1/2" of water and you're good

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Can you go above 1/2" of water?

Shay said:

Can you go above 1/2" of water?

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Sure, but if you have enough water collecting and cooling off above the grainbed, it might not be at the temp you want it by the time it gets to where it needs to be.

A few degrees isnt life or death though.

Boerderij Kabouter said:

I have never used a sparge arm, so I can't say what was wrong there, but fly sparging is super easy, easier than batch IMHO.

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+1. I don't know what all the hubbub is about.

BierMuncher said:

One thing I noticed when I moved to a "hybrid" fly sparge is that my beer attenuated more than batch sparging. It's a proven fact that a longer mash rest tie will result in your beer fermenting further and getting dryer.

The reason (I suspect) that fly sparging causes higher attenuation is that it's so non-disturbing to the mash that, that you're essentially extending the rest time quite substantially.

So, if you're attempting a maltier toned beer, you might cut your rest time down by 15 minutes so you don't end up with an FG of 1.005.

Click to expand...

This will happen if you don't do a mash out. If you do a mash out, you will have denatured the beta amylase and your fermentability should be locked in. Alpha amylase will still be working though, so any starches that are present will slowly get turned into long chained unfermentables (but we are talking about .001 difference or less in gravity probably).

Chimone said:

Sure, but if you have enough water collecting and cooling off above the grainbed, it might not be at the temp you want it by the time it gets to where it needs to be.

A few degrees isnt life or death though.

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I'll routinely go a good 6-8 inches above the grain bed when I'm doing a 6 gallon batch since it fits in my 14 gallon MLT without problem. I'll be done adding the liquor from the HLT 20 minutes into the sparge and just let it run it's course over an hour. Yes the temp will drop in the grain bed, but I still get high efficiency numbers, so I don't think it is a huge deal. I do do a mash out though and I think this gets most of the sugars dissolved so that the drop in temp isn't a big deal (once in solution, the sugars don't settle out easily).

jdoiv said:

I'll routinely go a good 6-8 inches above the grain bed when I'm doing a 6 gallon batch since it fits in my 14 gallon MLT without problem. I'll be done adding the liquor from the HLT 20 minutes into the sparge and just let it run it's course over an hour. Yes the temp will drop in the grain bed, but I still get high efficiency numbers, so I don't think it is a huge deal. I do do a mash out though and I think this gets most of the sugars dissolved so that the drop in temp isn't a big deal (once in solution, the sugars don't settle out easily).

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Yep, once you do a mash out all you are doing afterwards is rinsing those sugars out. So you drop a few degrees, no big deal right? In fact a few degrees cooler and you are even less likely to pull any tannins out.

Just like everything else in brewing there really is no one way to do anything. Everyone is going to take their setup and form their own techniques based on what works best for them. We are all still drinking great beer at the end of the day....

Chimone said:

Yep, once you do a mash out all you are doing afterwards is rinsing those sugars out. So you drop a few degrees, no big deal right? In fact a few degrees cooler and you are even less likely to pull any tannins out.

Just like everything else in brewing there really is no one way to do anything. Everyone is going to take their setup and form their own techniques based on what works best for them. We are all still drinking great beer at the end of the day....

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll see my grain bed temp drop from 168*F down to 145*F during the sparge, but I still get 87-92% efficiencies. And I think pH has more to do with tannin extraction than temp. You have to treat your sparge water and keep an eye on the pH especially when doing light colored beers.

jdoiv said:

Yeah, I'll see my grain bed temp drop from 168*F down to 145*F during the sparge, but I still get 87-92% efficiencies. And I think pH has more to do with tannin extraction than temp. You have to treat your sparge water and keep an eye on the pH especially when doing light colored beers.

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True, although I don't even bother with the ph that much. We have pretty good water here and it hasn't been a problem for me. I just try not to over sparge and stop when my running hit 1.010 then boil accordingly

i've only fly sparged and i find it to be easy as pie; how do you guys mash out? i think i need to add this element to my mash

pickles said:

i've only fly sparged and i find it to be easy as pie; how do you guys mash out? i think i need to add this element to my mash

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I have a burner underneath mine and recirculate only the liquid until temps hit 168. Then ten minute rest before starting the sparge

Thanks for all the input guys. It sounds like my brewday from hell wasn't so bad after all.

Next time as long as I do a mashout and put the lid on the HLT cooler I should be good to go. If the sparge arm sticks, it's no big deal as long as I keep a few inches of water above the grainbed and stop sparging when I collect enough wort or sg is 1.010.

I'm planning on getting a false bottom to place above the valve and braid to reduce channeling issues. That way I can still batch sparge if I want to.

I just need to remember to make sure the boil pot is empty before adding the wort.

BTW my brewhouse efficiency was 75.68% on this batch.

ah i see, how would I go about it with the 2 cooler mlt & hlt setup?