Water Report Questions

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ny101

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Hi All,

I just got my water report (attached below). Any ideas what styles this might be good for?

Also, I am looking at brewing a hop forward Pale Ale, but I had a few questions.

I am using "Pale Ale" profile in Bru'n Water, but one of the things I like to do in my Pale Ales is not to have it overly bittered. I really don't like the back of the mouth bitter flavor that comes in so many commercial varieties, so I was wondering if I should look at modifying the water profile to accommodate my preference.

I'm a bit over my head so any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

water_qual.jpg
 
I'm by no means an expert on this topic.

I'm particularly uncertain about the Fluoride impact on yeast health.

Regardless however, you have soft water. You will probably need to add water treatments to add back some hardness, and to obtain appropriate mash pH I would suspect. I think your water looks excellent a base to build upon and you can probably brew just about any style there is.

I started using the bru n water SS to try and predict how much acid malt I need to adjust mash pH and it works like a charm for me. It has been within 0.05 if not spot on when compared to pH meter in my last three brews, When trying to adjust the mineral content it can also help to guide you in mineral salt additions.

I'm sure AJDelange will probably have something wiser to say than I do. There are sure to be many envious of your report for sure.

TD
 
I should probably note that I actually pay for it. I can't stand my own well water, and I can get this stuff pretty cheap.

So here are the additions I came up with. Anything look out of whack? Also, anything I can do to account for doing more hop bursting and less bittering hops?

modified.jpg
 
That 'back of the mouth bitter' may be from the high levels of sulfate in the profile you are using. Some of us just don't like that (I am one). Try the beer with no added sulfate. Do add the chloride though. See if you like the result better. Experiment with sulfate additions in the glass to get an idea as to how much sulfate is acceptable to you.
 
It's hard to read that- but it looks like you have chalk (caco3) in the mash? If so, take it out. Then see what the projected mash pH is. You do not want chalk in the mash.
 
Ok. This time the chalk is removed. [Why am I removing the chalk?]

I increased the gypsum a bit to compensate. I'm a little worried at the high sulfates, but it seems the water profile calls for even more.

I also hope it's more readable this time!

unnamed.jpg
 
Ok. This time the chalk is removed. [Why am I removing the chalk?]

I increased the gypsum a bit to compensate. I'm a little worried at the high sulfates, but it seems the water profile calls for even more.

I also hope it's more readable this time!

The chalk is removed because it won't "work" and raise the mash pH unless you take extraneous measures.

Instead of increasing the gypsum to compensate, check the mash pH on the mash pH screen. That's the crucial part. If the projected mash pH is 5.5, that's great but you don't want to overload on the sulfate. Some people like a ton of sulfate in their APAs and IPAs, but I usually like about 100-150 ppm for most of them.

I think your chloride is too high. Take out the calcium chloride or at least cut it in half or thereabouts if you need it for the calcium.
 
Certainly, if you don't like the sharp bitterness that is present in some commercial styles, then dropping the sulfate back from the 300 ppm range is wise. I found that the 100 ppm range is OK, but not inspiring for me. But it was still a fine beer. The Yellow Bitter profile may be a great starting place. I do suggest adding a bit of gypsum in the glass to that low sulfate beer to see if you like a bit more sulfate in your beers. Do be sure to proportion out the sulfate to match the amount of beer in the glass. It will be a teeny amount.

With the Pale Ale profile and its very high calcium content, its imperative to add alkalinity to the mashing water in order to avoid a low mash pH. (this assumes that your brewing water supply has very low alkalinity ) Colin Kaminski and I have just had a discussion regarding kettle wort pH and we agree that hop forward beers need a wort pH of 5.4 in order to accentuate the hopping. A low wort pH will reduce the hop expression. So the high amount of calcium drives the RA down and the mash pH goes with it. So adding lime or baking soda are good options for adding alkalinity.

Do stay away from chloride content higher than around 50 ppm if you are boosting the sulfate over 100 ppm. The chloride is wasted since you are trying to produce a dryer or more bitter focus in the beer. When both chloride and sulfate are over 100 ppm, there is the potential to produce minerally flavor in the beer. That may not be your desire.
 
Colin Kaminski and I have just had a discussion regarding kettle wort pH and we agree that hop forward beers need a wort pH of 5.4 in order to accentuate the hopping. A low wort pH will reduce the hop expression.
It is true that higher kettle pH leads to increased ionization and therefore more solubility of hops alpha acids and therefore, presumably, more isomerization but it should be pointed out that there are advantages to lower kettle pH such as improved brightness of the runoff, better break formation and less demand for acid production on the part of the yeast as they are going to strive to get wort pH where they want it irrespective of what you give them. pH 5.4 is probably OK for kettle pH but is at the high end of the recommended range. I don't recall exact numbers but it seems to me that most texts want you in the 5.0 to 5.2 or perhaps 5.2 - 5.3 range. Now all this, including what follows may be interesting but moot because I and the texts are all talking about pH at the conclusion of the boil, and Martin and Colin may be talking about the onset. Some breweries add salts and/or acids to the kettle but the usual goal is reduction of pH.

I thought it might be interesting to try to WAG what the effects of an increase in wort pH might actually have on bitterness. The graph below shows what I came up with. The horizontal axis shows hypothesized fractions of the alpha acid that are ionized at some normal but unspecified pH. The left vertical axis shows the fraction that is ionized if the pH is increased above the normal pH by 0.1, 0.2 or 0.3 pH and the axis on the right the percentage increase of ionized acid for those same pH increases. For example, assuming that one normally gets 20% ionization, increasing pH by 0.3 would increase that to 33% which represents a 65% increase in the concentration of ionized acid in the wort.

It is also worthy of noting that if you want knockout pH as high as 5.4 you are probably going to have to add alkali to the kettle as there is naturally an appreciable drop there. Looking back over my logs it seems to average 0.3 pH with respect to the initial mash pH. As mash pH generally drifts up a bit as the process proceeds the drop in the kettle is probably a bit more that that with respect to lauter pH. Bear in mind, of course, that my logs represent my brewing, not the universe of brewing and other people brewing different beers in different ways may have appreciably different experience.


Do stay away from chloride content higher than around 50 ppm if you are boosting the sulfate over 100 ppm.
I think better advice here is to start with low levels of chloride and sulfate and then experiment in tasting to see what levels prove desirable. Individual taste very much comes into this.

The chloride is wasted since you are trying to produce a dryer or more bitter focus in the beer.
The man has not expressed a preference for dry bitter beer. He is specifically asking how to avoid that excess bitterness which is so popular in craft beers today. And he might not want dry beer either.

There are two types of dryness to consider. There is the dry bitterness of the hops which I call harshness though I see why people might call it dry and then there is the dryness that comes from a highly attenuated wort. The two are independent. In the beers I brew (continental lagers for the most part) I avoid the former by shunning sulfate and using noble hops and get the latter by saccharifying below 150 °F.

Finally I think it worth noting that if I want a bit more bitterness I just add hops. Colin Kaminski is is a very different position. He has to make a profit. I don't. He needs to squeeze every BU and every °P out of his raw materials.

KettlepH.jpg
 
Wow is all I can say. Thanks guys for helping out. There is a lot of juicy info in here. I'm going to play around a bit with the spread sheet some more. In the mean time, thanks for all the helpful responses!
 
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