Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > so confused by water report
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-26-2012, 06:53 PM   #11
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 2,866
Liked 206 Times on 177 Posts
Likes Given: 24

Default

The SM-101 has been superseded by the MW-101 meter. I followed Kai's advice regarding my last meter purchase and have been pleased with the MW-101. I had Hanna pH Checker meters prior. Those Hanna's were decent, but the Milwaukee MW-101 has proven to be better.

Kai needs to update the link to the SM-101 on his site, since it no longer exists. I'd suggest pointing at a MW-101 and explaining the SM was superseded by it.

__________________

Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-26-2012, 11:46 PM   #12
runningweird
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
runningweird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State Line, PA, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,107
Liked 87 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

so once I get the pH meter and some pickling lime I can start playing with my water.

for a 10 gallon batch I will need a lot of space to treat water in, what do you guys use as a treatment/precipitant tank?

I was thinking of using a 15 gallon hdpe drum with a spigot or ball valve. do you have to empty out the chalk residue after every treatment?

__________________

My 6 Tap Long Draw Tower Build:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/long...-tower-271578/

runningweird is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2012, 02:07 AM   #13
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 114 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningweird View Post
I was thinking of using a 15 gallon hdpe drum with a spigot or ball valve. do you have to empty out the chalk residue after every treatment?
No, it actually makes sense to keep it in there since the existing chalk will help the precipitation of more chalk by providing seed crystals. That's why it is recommended to also add some chalk when treating with lime or boiling water.

Once in a while you may want to clean it out.

Kai
Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2012, 08:54 PM   #14
grathan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 2,064
Liked 129 Times on 98 Posts
Likes Given: 79

Default

Just buy the Colorphast strips. By the time you buy that meter and also buy calibration, cleaning, and storing solution and acids and lime, you will have spent half the cost of a Reverse Osmosis water system. And that cheap meter will most likely drift and need replacement in a year or two. I personally would never buy anything from Amazon with only a 3 star review.

__________________
grathan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2013, 03:42 AM   #15
runningweird
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
runningweird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State Line, PA, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,107
Liked 87 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

reviving an older thread. I now have a 32 gallon trash can, ph strips(no meter yet), alkalinity strips and the feeling of being totally out of my depth.

I was looking at palmers page http://www.winning-homebrew.com/carb...reduction.html

and wondering what my temporary hardness was - is it the total alkalinity reading? or the bicarbonate reading?

__________________

My 6 Tap Long Draw Tower Build:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/long...-tower-271578/

runningweird is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2013, 04:55 AM   #16
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,433
Liked 72 Times on 61 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningweird View Post
reviving an older thread. I now have a 32 gallon trash can, ph strips(no meter yet), alkalinity strips and the feeling of being totally out of my depth.

I was looking at palmers page http://www.winning-homebrew.com/carb...reduction.html

and wondering what my temporary hardness was - is it the total alkalinity reading? or the bicarbonate reading?
Yes it's the total alkalinity. Your water is a great candidate for lime softening.
__________________
afr0byte is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2013, 05:20 AM   #17
runningweird
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
runningweird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State Line, PA, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,107
Liked 87 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

so - 335x .74 = 247.9

so I would need 247.9 mg/liter of water treated

if I wanted to treat 20 gallons of water that would be 75.7 liters
so 18766/1000 = 18.76 grams of slaked lime
paler says to adjust up 20-30% so

18.76 x 1.25 =23.5 grams slaked lime to treat 20 gallons of water

is this right? that seems like a lot of lime from what I have read.

would I need to add supplemental calcium in in the form of calcium carbonate ?

__________________

My 6 Tap Long Draw Tower Build:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/long...-tower-271578/

runningweird is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2013, 05:23 AM   #18
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,433
Liked 72 Times on 61 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningweird View Post
so - 335x .74 = 247.9

so I would need 247.9 mg/liter of water treated

if I wanted to treat 20 gallons of water that would be 75.7 liters
so 18766/1000 = 18.76 grams of slaked lime
paler says to adjust up 20-30% so

18.76 x 1.25 =23.5 grams slaked lime to treat 20 gallons of water

is this right? that seems like a lot of lime from what I have read.

would I need to add supplemental calcium in in the form of calcium carbonate ?
I'd try the 18.76 grams first. That amount (scaled for my water, obviously) has worked for me.
__________________
afr0byte is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2013, 05:25 AM   #19
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,433
Liked 72 Times on 61 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

When you do the treatment I'd add half your water and add the entire amount of lime, then stir as you're adding the rest of the water (say a good stir per gallon).

__________________
afr0byte is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2013, 02:33 PM   #20
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,348
Liked 654 Times on 542 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningweird View Post

18.76 x 1.25 =23.5 grams slaked lime to treat 20 gallons of water

is this right?
Yes, approximately. I get 23.9 grams (some calculators forget that there is a second component required to overcome the buffering capacity of the water) but the important thing for you to know is that where precipitation is involved things are a little iffy. DeClerck recommends that one calculate an amount and treat three samples one with the calculated amount and two other with respectively ±10% (or perhaps 15%) more or less. Then after the treatment measure the alkalinity and pick the dose that gives the best result.

afr0byte's recommendation is equivalent to doing this. As you add in the second half of the water gradually the pH should stay relatively stable as the chalk forms and precipitates i.e. it should decrease slowly. When all the lime is used up the pH will start to fall back more rapidly. That is your signal that the reaction is complete. Adding more water will only add more alkalinity that won't get neutralized so you should stop at this point. The pH may be higher than where you started (i.e. higher than in your untreated water). As Hubert Hanghoffer pointed out many years ago this is an acid/base titration (the acid is the bicarbonate ion in the source water) and you want to stop at the inflection point. If the end point pH is 8.3 so be it. Remember you don't care about the water's pH. You are doing this to beat alkalinity.

Of course all this is quite a bit of trouble and requires a fairly good pH meter (doen't even have to be as good as the one you should have for checking mash) and you have to weigh out the lime etc. You'll get the same result (decarbonation to about 1 mEq/L) just by heating the water in the HLT and sparging off the CO2. Steam is good for that (IOW you have to let the water come to the boil) but one clever idea is to spray the hot water through a shower head or similar device. You then have to get the water off the chalk and wait for it to cool to mash temperature but you have to get the water off the chalk with lime treatment but you get the hot water as part of the decarbonation process. Any way you look at it each method has its advantages and disadvantages. I'd be inclined to try both, measuring treated water akalinity after each, to see which one was easiest/most effective.
__________________
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
North Penn Water Authority (Montgomery Co., PA) Water Report lebshiff21 Brew Science 11 04-30-2014 11:13 PM
Richmond, VA Water Report - Can't find the Ca or Mg in water report alers22 Brew Science 2 10-29-2012 02:00 PM
Water Engineering for PA : AJs Water Primer based on Ward Lab Report mrcastellino Brew Science 4 11-22-2011 04:55 AM
Ward Water Report and Bru'n Water Sheet, now what? ToastedPenguin Brew Science 1 07-22-2011 08:58 PM
Hows my water look? dont really understand the water report ekjohns General Beer Discussion 3 03-30-2010 07:52 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS