Measuring Water Additions (Scale only Does 1g)

Well folks, noobie mistake. This is my first attempt at adjusting distilled water to my desired profile. I have all the ingredients for my brew, yeast starter begun last night, water purchased and brew day is ready to go....

Except I didn't realize that my scale only does 1gram increments. For my mash water this isn't an issue, as my additions ended up being whole gram increments (1 and 2). My sparge water additions are in the 0.7 and 1.4 gram range.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I should do this? I suppose I could try and measure 2 grams and split it into thirds to get ~0.7, then 3 grams and split it in half to get ~1.4 grams.

Besides this, are there other options?

I have the same kind of scale and I'm too cheap to buy a triple-beam balance.

I measure out 10 level teaspoons and weigh it all. Divide the weight by 10 and I have a good wt/tsp. value. For example, the epsom salt I use comes out to about 3g per tsp. Then I just use fractional measuring spoons to get the amount I want.

That's a good idea. I do have fractional teaspoons (1 tsp down to 1/8 tsp). But as far as my additions (Gypsum, CaCl, and CaCO3) go, I only have 2 oz each of these from Midwest. I suppose I could just do a smaller amounts, maybe 2-3 tsp? Wouldn't be quite as accurate as doing 10 but I suppose it would work. Thanks for the idea!

Morebeer is selling a scale with 0.1 g resolution now for a reasonable price.

That won't help me for brew day today though

My first advice would be to get a scale that weights in .1 grams, or better yet, .01 grams. There are even milligrams scales out there, but is likely overkill. Read the reviews (Amazon) to find which suits your needs. The best scales are not only precise (accurate) but also have great repeatability. Both are important, and often go hand in hand.

If your scale weights in grams, the precision is about a gram, and that's at best. It reads 1, 2, 3, etc. It won't tell you if you have 1.5 grams, or 1.6, or 1.4. It may read either 1 or 2, depending on the electronics, and that's the limitation of that scale. You could calibrate with a weight set, or at least find out at which weight it turns from 1 to 2 grams. That's where repeatability comes in, which means the next time it should measure the same.

To answer your question more directly, if you're able to measure "1 gram" of a brewing salt (or 2 grams, or 3, etc.), then visually divide the amount on your weighting paper, to get the in betweens.

Say you measure 2 grams, but need 1.5. Divide it in half, so you get two 1-gram piles. Divide one of those 1-gram piles again in half to get two half gram piles. If you need 1.3 grams, divide one 1-gram pile in thirds etc.

Keep in mind that you're approximating to whatever your scale measures, and weighting errors are cumulative. Don't weight 1 gram and then weight another 1 gram and split the last. Weight 2 grams once, and split that.

[Added] Once you establish the fractional amounts, you can calibrate them back to measuring spoons, instead of weighting each time.

Since precision, and thus measuring error, is about 1 gram, it may be more accurate to measure 10 grams on that scale, and then measure the volume of that in teaspoons. That becomes your gauge. Compounds have different weights (density) so you need to measure for each then write the conversion from grams to (fractional) teaspoons on the jar, once and for all.

USMCPayne said:

That won't help me for brew day today though

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My answer above will...

USMCPayne said:

That's a good idea. I do have fractional teaspoons (1 tsp down to 1/8 tsp). But as far as my additions (Gypsum, CaCl, and CaCO3) go, I only have 2 oz each of these from Midwest. I suppose I could just do a smaller amounts, maybe 2-3 tsp? Wouldn't be quite as accurate as doing 10 but I suppose it would work. Thanks for the idea!

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Sure, it doesn't have to be 10 tsp, just enough that the amount of error is minimized. In my 3g/tsp. example above, say you were to just measure 1 tsp. and the scale reads 3g. With 1g resolution that "3g" could be anywhere from 2.5 to 3.5--too much uncertainty. With 10 tsp, if it weighs 30g, that would actually be between 29.5 to 30.5. Scaled back to 1 tsp, you now know it is between 2.95 and 3.05g, a more reasonable range.

When scooping out powder with the measuring spoons, I always strike it off with a piece of cardboard to ensure a consistent level measure.

You guys are awesome! Thanks for the help. I will see what I can come up with.

Do you have a Harbor Freight Tools store nearby? I've used this scale for 6years and it is still calibrated perfectly---1 zinc penny weighs 2.5 grams.

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-pocket-scale-93543.html

Another thing you could try is making a stock solution. It's usually easier to measure out small volumes of fluid than small masses of salt, so you basically dissolve a large-ish quantity of salt (large enough that the percent error in your mass measurement is relatively small) into a known amount of water. Then you'd know the concentration of the salt in the solution to a reasonable accuracy so you'd just have to measure out a volume of the stock solution to make salt additions to your brewing water. If you keep your stock solutions in sealed bottles the concentration of the salt should stay relatively stable over time so you could use them for multiple batches.

As said above, a scale with 1g increments is not useful for mineral additions. Get a 100g scale with 0.01g increments on Amazon for $10 and 100g calibration weight for $3. That's $13 well spent. Links:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012LOQUQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EG6T0A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Thanks for the links! The scale I have is really for measuring hops, DME, and priming sugar. I need a new scale for sure. What is the purpose of getting the calibration weight? Can the scale you linked to me be manually calibrated or is that just to see if the factory calibration is off for adjustments?

For $12 you can hardly expect the thing to have auto calibration and a factory calibration isn't going to do unless the value of g at your location is the same or close to that at the factory's location (which is probably in China). Remember that the scale doesn't measure mass, m. It measures m*g and converts that to m but for it to do that it has to know what m*g is for a standard m.

Yes, the $10 scale I linked to does allow you to calibrate it. Do you really need the calibration weight? Meh, without it you may be off a few percent and maybe you do not care. But to be honest how do we even know that this $3 Chinese weight was even calibrated itself? Hmmmm.... But hey, it's only $3 and it may put your nitpicky side at ease.

According to the reviews the external weight is required for calibration. This is hardly surprising as we noted earlier that we could hardly expect to find internal calibration in a scale that costs $12.

The point about how good the cal weight might be is quite relevant. Most people don't understand that any measurement we make (voltage, pH, weight, temperature, length, time....) is made by comparing, usually indirectly as is the case with a scale, the thing being measured to a standard. If the standard is off, the measurement will be off. If one wants utmost accuracy he buys standards that are traceable to a higher quality standard and maintaining the integrity of this traceability is a science in itself. Things like whether the standard weight is made of brass or steel matter (but not at the level of accuracy of the scale under consideration).

If fine work were being done the purchased weight would be taken to a metrology lab where it would be weighed against a standard traceable to BPM in France thus verifying that its weight (or really mass) is within tolerance. Absent that you will have to take it on faith.

SpeedYellow said:

Yes, the $10 scale I linked to does allow you to calibrate it.

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This is really what I was getting after haha, I didn't see anything on the description that confirmed this. For $3 you can't really go wrong. Thanks for the highly scientific insight into scales and measurements. Being far removed from my Electrical Engineering background, it's nice to know I can throw a bunch of science back into the mix with my brewing. You guys are awesome.

For $22 I found this scale that weighs up to 20g, with milligram resolution. The reviews seem to be positive. It comes with a calibration weight, tweezers and tray. Since I already have an Escali scale for weighing grain, sugar. etc., this might be a good little scale for weighing water additions. I doubt I'll ever need more than 20g capacity for that.

MaxStout said:

For $22 I found this scale that weighs up to 20g, with milligram resolution. The reviews seem to be positive. It comes with a calibration weight, tweezers and tray. Since I already have an Escali scale for weighing grain, sugar. etc., this might be a good little scale for weighing water additions. I doubt I'll ever need more than 20g capacity for that.

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The review by Ginkgo on September 28, 2011 (2nd one right now) is very informative. I've looked at that scale a while ago. Please note the small problem reported with the placing of the measuring cup on the scale. Gluing a small washer on the bottom of the cup fixed that.

IslandLizard said:

The review by Ginkgo on September 28, 2011 (2nd one right now) is very informative. I've looked at that scale a while ago. Please note the small problem reported with the placing of the measuring cup on the scale. Gluing a small washer on the bottom of the cup fixed that.

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Good to know about the measuring tray. I noticed that exact same scale is sold under several brand names, and for varying prices. I spotted one on Amazon for a few bucks cheaper than the one I linked above, and ordered it.

MaxStout said:

Good to know about the measuring tray. I noticed that exact same scale is sold under several brand names, and for varying prices. I spotted one on Amazon for a few bucks cheaper than the one I linked above, and ordered it.

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Yeah, welcome to Amazon...

It looks indeed like the same scale for $6 less. And if you really get what is pictured, you should receive it with the two 10 gr weights required to calibrate the scale.

The washer mod is essential to prevent the cup from touching the base. Makes one wonder, eh?

I've been looking at getting an analytical balance, but for $16 this is hard to beat.

IslandLizard said:

The review by Ginkgo on September 28, 2011 (2nd one right now) is very informative. I've looked at that scale a while ago. Please note the small problem reported with the placing of the measuring cup on the scale. Gluing a small washer on the bottom of the cup fixed that.

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I scoured the site and could not find the review you mentioned. I've obviously overlooked something here. Could you post a link? Thanks!

MaxStout said:

I scoured the site and could not find the review you mentioned. I've obviously overlooked something here. Could you post a link? Thanks!

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Sure, it's the second review on this particular listing.

Or linked directly: Ginkgo's review

There are a few offerings around of this scale that look all very similar. I've found some differences in the included accessories, and internally they may be different animals. There is even one out there with 0.001 - 30 gram range, instead of the usual 20g.

Very confusing to get the right one, for the right price.

IslandLizard said:

Sure, it's the second review on this particular listing.

Or linked directly: Ginkgo's review

There are a few offerings around of this scale that look all very similar. I've found some differences in the included accessories, and internally they may be different animals. There is even one out there with 0.001 - 30 gram range, instead of the usual 20g.

Very confusing to get the right one, for the right price.

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Thanks for the links. For some reason, I was thinking the reviews were on HBT. That explains why I couldn't find it. :smack:

Very impressive, and comprehensive, review.

Followup...

I received the Weigh Masters scale from Amazon. Big disappointment.

I set it up and followed the calibration process per the manual, using the two 10-gram weights. Once the scale displayed that the calibration was successful, I checked to see that the scale read zero with the weighing pan in place. It did. I placed one of the 10g weights in the pan, and it showed a reading of over 16 grams! I removed the weight and the scale zeroed, then placed the other 10g weight in the pan. It showed over 18g.

WTF?

I repeated this whole process several times, with the same disappointing results. Each time I would weigh either of the 10g weights, the display would show a completely different amount, with values ranging anywhere from about 13 to over 18 grams. This scale was off by as much as 80%!

This is completely unusable junk.

MaxStout said:

Followup...

I received the Weigh Masters scale from Amazon. Big disappointment...

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Check out the American Weigh scale I linked above. It's now under $9. So it costs less, gives you 5x the capacity, has sufficient resolution (0.01g), and works great in my experience. IMHO, an easy choice. I can't image why you'd ever need a resolution of 0.001g.

http://amzn.com/B0012LOQUQ

MaxStout said:

Followup...

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I'm so sorry to hear you have trouble with it.
Did you place a washer underneath the pan? It's crucial, see Ginkgo's review.

Otherwise it's probably a defective unit or just badly made. Contact the seller for a refund.

I just wonder why you didn't buy the one from "American Weigh" as that is the one Ginkgo reviewed. As I said before there are a few of these scales that all look alike, but the guts and hence performance maybe entirely different.

IslandLizard said:

I'm so sorry to hear you have trouble with it.
Did you place a washer underneath the pan? It's crucial, see Ginkgo's review.

Otherwise it's probably a defective unit or just badly made. Contact the seller for a refund.

I just wonder why you didn't buy the one from "American Weigh" as that is the one Ginkgo reviewed. As I said before there are a few of these scales that all look alike, but the guts and hence performance maybe entirely different.

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I bought the one with the lowest price. And I think those scales are the same, probably an off-the-shelf model from an overseas contract mfr., then re-badged for their respective vendors over here. Very common in the electronics industry. I think I just got a bad one, but I would be a bit reluctant to purchase another flavor of the same scale.

I might have to look into that 100g capacity scale you originally posted. It's half the price, and I don't need milligram resolution, anyway.

MaxStout said:

I bought the one with the lowest price. And I think those scales are the same, probably an off-the-shelf model from an overseas contract mfr., then re-badged for their respective vendors over here. Very common in the electronics industry. I think I just got a bad one, but I would be a bit reluctant to purchase another flavor of the same scale.

I might have to look into that 100g capacity scale you originally posted. It's half the price, and I don't need milligram resolution, anyway.

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Did you add the washer?

[EDIT] It wasn't me who posted the 100 gram scale. .01 gram will mostly suffice, again depending on accuracy of the device.

Plan A: Get a refund, and find a new scale.

Plan B: Place 2 nickels on your scale. Record the weight. Let's assume it says 10.8 g. Now weight out 10.8 g of whatever you'll be using. You now have 10.0 grams of something on your scale. Add this to a solution of RO water and fill to 100 mL. Use 1mL of this water for every 0.1 g of stuff you want to use.

Example: You need 3.4 g of CaCl2. Use 34 mL of your stock solution and add it to wherever you need it.

Plan C: Seriously... get a refund and find a new scale.

GotPushrods said:

Plan A: Get a refund, and find a new scale.

Plan B: Place 2 nickels on your scale. Record the weight. Let's assume it says 10.8 g. Now weight out 10.8 g of whatever you'll be using. You now have 10.0 grams of something on your scale. Add this to a solution of RO water and fill to 100 mL. Use 1mL of this water for every 0.1 g of stuff you want to use.

Example: You need 3.4 g of CaCl2. Use 34 mL of your stock solution and add it to wherever you need it.

Plan C: Seriously... get a refund and find a new scale.

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It's back in the box and sitting on my front porch for UPS to pick up.

The "Plan B" wouldn't have worked with the scale, as the same weight gets vastly different readings each time. (Poor precision)

However, I do like your stock solution idea. I might do that anyway, just for ease of repeatability. I could store the solution for each salt in small squeeze bottles. Maybe make up a 1g to 10ml ratio for each. I already own an Escali scale that's good in the gram range, so I could make a large batch of each solution with decent accuracy. I have a good 100ml graduated cylinder for measuring small volumes of liquid for the additions.

What I do now is weigh 10 or 20 level teaspoons of the salt on the Escali, and divide the resulting weight by the number of scoops to get a rough estimate of weight per teaspoon. It's when I need to add some odd fraction of a tsp. that I get into guesswork. I'm probably close, but want to dial it in better. The stock solution with the graduated cylinder would reduce that error, as the salt/water ratio is relatively low.

Island Lizard: Yes, I did the washer hack. I just think the scale was a bad one. It calibrates to zero, but all over the road with any weight above that.

SpeedYellow said:

Check out the American Weigh scale I linked above. It's now under $9. So it costs less, gives you 5x the capacity, has sufficient resolution (0.01g), and works great in my experience. IMHO, an easy choice. I can't image why you'd ever need a resolution of 0.001g.

http://amzn.com/B0012LOQUQ

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I second this, i bought this on amazon and its great. You can buy a 100g calibration weight on amazon too for like $3-4.

Calibration is solid, it has like 5 different measurement types..oz, g, gn(i assume grain for loading your own bullets?), and a few others i dont recognize.

I use it to measure my water additions and hops. .01g is more than enough accuracy for weighing salts...hell just a few grains of epsom salt is like .03g.
And at its 100g max its great for even measuring out 1-2oz hop additions, then tareing and repeating if necessary.

So I got the 100g AWS in the mail with a 50.0g calibration weight....mistake.

The 100g scale requires a 100g calibration weight. DOH *slaps forehead* I thought you could just "tell" it what weight you were using to calibrate, nope. Guess I need to make another purchase on Amazon.

On the good side, the 50g calibration weight came in at 49.99 over 10 times. That gives me pretty solid confidence in the scale.

USMCPayne said:

So I got the 100g AWS in the mail with a 50.0g calibration weight....mistake.

The 100g scale requires a 100g calibration weight. DOH *slaps forehead* I thought you could just "tell" it what weight you were using to calibrate, nope. Guess I need to make another purchase on Amazon.

On the good side, the 50g calibration weight came in at 49.99 over 10 times. That gives me pretty solid confidence in the scale.

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Since you know that the scale is accurate at 50g, stack a bunch of coins or washers, etc., until you get a 50g reading, then put them in with your 50g weight to calibrate at 100g.

BTW, I'm planning to get that same scale, so I'll be sure to order the 100g cal weight with it.

MaxStout said:

Since you know that the scale is accurate at 50g, stack a bunch of coins or washers, etc., until you get a 50g reading, then put them in with your 50g weight to calibrate at 100g.

BTW, I'm planning to get that same scale, so I'll be sure to order the 100g cal weight with it.

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Man, thinking outside the box. I love this forum. Always coming up with ways to fix "problems".