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Old 11-22-2010, 10:44 PM   #1
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Default Looking for PH Meter Suggestions

I'm looking for suggestions. I read about this,

LaMotte 1741

http://www.lamotte.com/images/pdfs/i...tions/1741.pdf

Suggested by Netflyer almost 1 year ago.



And this,

Milwaukee 101

http://www.milwaukeetesters.com/MW101.html

Suggested by Kaiser



They both look OK but possibly dated. Just looking for current suggestions.

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Old 11-23-2010, 03:15 AM   #2
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Guess I'd prefer the LaMotte just on the basis that it appears more up to date in that the ATC is indeed automatic i.e. it has a temperature probe and can do the compensation without requiring a separate measurement and manual entry of the measured temperature by turning a knob. It should, therefore, be possible to measure each of the two buffers and the sample at different temperatures. I'm not saying you should do that - I always advocate trying to keep the three measurements at pretty close to the same temp.

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Old 11-23-2010, 03:24 AM   #3
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I should point out, that I am not determined to pick between these two. They just happen to be a couple I found mentioned in the forum.
From what little I know, I agree the ATC would be a good feature.

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Old 11-24-2010, 05:13 AM   #4
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I noticed this on Amazon today...
http://www.amazon.com/Hanna-Instrume...0579146&sr=8-3

They specifically advertise for beer industry:
http://www.hannainst.com/usa/prods2....ode=HI%2099151

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Old 11-24-2010, 11:20 AM   #5
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It's hard to beat the MW101
I have the previous model SM101. Manual temp correction isn't that bad since you're sticking a thermometer in the sample while it cools anyway.

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Old 11-24-2010, 11:24 AM   #6
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Though many readers here will be too young to remember there was a time when hi-fi was all the rage and much debate about who had the best amplifiers with the highest peak power capabilities, best balanced hum, minimum harmonic distortion, best channel separation... As components improved it became possible for anyone who employed a good engineer or 2 to design a superb amplifier (we are excluding those that think only vaccum tubes have "mellow" enough sound and the FETs produce "brittle" sound etc. from this discussion) and the performance was limited by the transducer i.e. the loud speakers. It's pretty much the same with pH meter's today. Most manufacturers have excellent electronics and the limitations are in the electrodes. Most electronics now have really high input impedance, low drift, low noise, accurate A/D converters, ATC, and are capable of automatic multi point calibration with automatic buffer recognition. And, beyond that, electrode technology has advanced in the last few years to the point where you don't have to spend $1000 for a good meter/electrode combination - though you certainly can if you really want too. So now the limitation on accuracy of a pH meter is really the buffers. Any meter with 0.5 mV rms noise or less and 0.5°C rms temperature accuracy or better can read pH to a little better than ± 0.02 when using technical buffers rated ± 0.02 as long as the reading is made about half way between the buffer pH's (and this is the case in mash, beer, wort etc.) and the electrode's isoelectric pH falls in the range 7±0.5 pH which most do (but I mention this because I have one that doesn't). The caveats concerning fresh buffers and proper calibration and measurement procedure are obviously attached.

There is no difference in the electronics of a pH meter for beer than for any other application. Brewing does impose some requirements on an electrode, however, and those mostly have to do with the ability of gums, proteins and sugars to plug the reference junction frit. In the past this was solved with sleeve junctions in which the frit is replaced by something like a glass stopper held in place with a spring. If the junction plugged it was "renewed" by pushing the "stopper" out of the "bottle" thus letting electrolyte flow over the ground glass flusing away the blocking material. But even this seems un-necessary with today's technology. I have found much less expensive fixed junction electrodes to serve for a bit over 2 years in brewing without problems. Point being that describing this meter as "for beer" may be more marketing than anything else.

All this aside Hana makes good gear - not the Rolls Royce of instrumentation perhaps but why pay for features you don't really need like the ability to record all the GLP data, attach conductivity, ISE, ORP and DO electrodes, interface to your computer over USB, write to a thumb drive etc.?

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Old 11-24-2010, 11:38 AM   #7
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get something from thermofischer scientific

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Old 11-24-2010, 12:21 PM   #8
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Do I need to pay for the "Solution Kit" as well as the PH Meter? That adds considerably to the cost, but if it is needed then I will plan on it as part of the cost.
Where do I find Thermofischer Scientific PH Meters?

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Last edited by RonRock; 11-24-2010 at 01:43 PM. Reason: Poor wording
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:46 PM   #9
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As what you are really doing when measuring pH is comparing how an electrode responds in a sample to the way it responds in buffers it is essential that the buffers have the pH you think they have. This requires that they be fresh and that the meter be calibrated frequently using these fresh buffers. It is also important that the electrode be stored in the manufacturer's recommended storage medium (usually a saturated solution of potassium chloride). If the electrode is refillable, you will also need the fill solution. So yes, it's absolutely essential that you have the solution kit.

The Thermo line can be found at most lab supply houses such as Cole Parmer or VWR. Bring money.

http://vwrlabshop.com/thermo-orion/c/5034474/

They also make (or made) instruments which are branded by others. For example, Hach makes very good meters. I took one apart years ago and found the circuit boards were silkscreened "Orion" (bought by Thermo bought by Fischer....). No guarantee this is stil the case but Hach still sells good meters.

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Old 11-24-2010, 01:44 PM   #10
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Thanks, I'm learning.

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