L. Brevis Stalling Out

Hey guys,

I have some lambic-style wort sitting in a carboy that I pitched a big healthy starter of L. brevis into. Within a few days the pH had dropped down to around 3.55. My plan was to pitch a starter of Brett Trois in once the pH dropped to the low 3s. I figured maybe something was wrong with the lacto so I pitched smack pack of WY Oud Bruin that I had laying around, hoping for an additional dose of lacto. I've been holding the carboy at around 95F. First pitch of lacto was a week ago.

Is this all that I should be expecting for a pH drop from the brevis? The nose is a faint tart, but I honestly though the brevis would tear into this thing and sour it nicely. Should I pitch the Trois or just keep it going for a couple more days at 95F and see what happens?

Thx.

How accurate is your PH measurement?

What does it taste like?

Probably only get down to 3.2 - 3.3 range.

I always go by taste.

A lot of people are getting the same results from the recent commercial L. brevis strains. I have a pro brewer friend though that recently used it and got a lot more acidity. I haven't had a chance to pick his brain on it yet.

I pitched a big ol' starter into 9 ibu wort. Let ride for 3 days. I got to 3.8 or so before it stalled. I will be harvesting off of grain hulls next time to see how that goes. I pitched my belgian ale yeast a few weeks ago, I will test it next week to see if it dropped any.

I use an electronic, calibrated PH meter.

Whenever I use lacto, I use ZERO hops. I have had experience where lacto has not worked in wort with the smallest amount of hops (small amount of old hops for a few minutes - probably zero IBUs) and not worked. I know all lacto is not the same, but I have decided that it is not worth the problems/disappointment if a problem occurs.

For a BW, I just dry hop. For other beers you can boil part or all the wort/beer to get hops into the beer once it has soured.

I had an oude bruin type beer pitched with wyeast lacto brevis. I pitched a lacto starter after cooling the wort to 110F. After 36 hours I pitched a large lager yeast starter, and feremented for like ~7 days. After that I racked to secondary and pitched ECY-03B and ECY-19. After about a week it was at pH 3.2.

I am inclined to suggest pitching brett with lacto, it seems to do a better job of lowering the pH than lacto alone.

Thanks guys. My pH meter is accurate, I've calibrated it before every measurement. It looks like there is some activity in there today -- whether that is from the additional dose of brevis or is from the sacc in the Oude Bruin blend, I'm not sure. Going to toss the Brett in anyways this evening. Thanks!

I had trouble with White Labs Brevis souring. I've used Wyeast's De Bom, which I believe has Brevis in it, and that soured fine. I can't figure out what the deal is.

3.55PH is decent, and the PH may even drop once you pitch your primary strain. Your warm Lacto ferment isnt your last chance to acidify a Lambic, is there pedio in the WY Oud Bruin? Even if not there is Delbruckii so that may help.

When doing a sour wort like youre doing here it can be difficult to taste if the bee is acidic enough due to all of the residual sugars left. At this point just go ahead and pitch whatever your primary strain was going to be, although the sacch in the Oud Bruin blend is probably taking care of that.

Not sure if youve been following along with the Brett Trois saga, many people have analyzed it now and it appears to be Sacchromyces. If that matters to you.

Coff said:

3.55PH is decent, and the PH may even drop once you pitch your primary strain. Your warm Lacto ferment isnt your last chance to acidify a Lambic, is there pedio in the WY Oud Bruin? Even if not there is Delbruckii so that may help.

When doing a sour wort like youre doing here it can be difficult to taste if the bee is acidic enough due to all of the residual sugars left. At this point just go ahead and pitch whatever your primary strain was going to be, although the sacch in the Oud Bruin blend is probably taking care of that.

Not sure if youve been following along with the Brett Trois saga, many people have analyzed it now and it appears to be Sacchromyces. If that matters to you.

Click to expand...

No pedio in the Oud Bruin blend. Also, I had thought it was a brevis strain as they advertise it as aggressive and somewhat more resistant to hops.

I think you're right about just pitching the trois. I'm not boiling here to kill the lacto, and this will be put in fruit eventually anyways, so hopefully the acidity increases a bit.

Thanks for the input guys.

Just as an update, this is happily bubbling away right now after putting the Trois in. pH has fallen to 3.4. Not a lot of krausen on this one, I tried to pre-sour in the kettle below 4.5 so the lacto wouldn't kill the head retention but I'm not sure if it worked. Nicely tart right now.