Schlafly Pumpkin Ale clone attempt... sorta

So I make a pumpkin ale every year that's right down my taste alley - a nice amber ale with a pretty decent sweetness, some caramel-candy-fruity flavors, and just enough spices so that you know you're drinking a pumpkin ale but they're not overwhelming. For a 7% beer it's incredibly drinkable.

But SWMBO has declared Schlafly her favorite pumpkin beer, and therefore anything I make will always fall short. So in an effort to appease her, today I'm brewing something that will approximate Schlafly's. (And by the way, it's the greatest feeling ever when you get "brew more beer" added to the Honey-do list).

I definitely am not proclaiming this as a perfect clone because 1) it's the first time I've tried this and 2) I'm doing some stuff with the grain bill, hops, spices, and yeast that I'm pretty sure are not on the mark. Nevertheless, because I know SWMBO's true weakness (anything that has a buttload of malt and alcohol), I'm pretty sure she'll like this a lot.

To develop my recipe, I did a side-by-side tasting of my beer and Schlafly's and took some copious notes on their differences. It really helped using my beer as a jumping off point, but I recognize that it means I'm also carrying over some inconsistencies. I also listened to the Brewing Network's interview with Schlafly (Oct 26, 2008 - which is also my wife's birthday, making this whole situation even more significant in her mind), but it was pretty uninformative. Finally I referenced the Schlafly website, which was also not too helpful. Here are the things I learned from the bits of research:

-Schlafly uses butternut squash and hubbard pumpkin in their beer, and the spices are cinnamon, nutmeg, and clove
-It's 8% ABV
-They use either WLP001 or 051 (American strains)
-Their beer has a lot of toffee and strong caramel notes, making me lean towards some darker crystal, even though the two beers are nearly the same color
-It has a stronger spice presence than my beer, especially in the aroma, and the spices are very piquant
-It does not have as much toasty, grainy flavors as my beer.

Here's the recipe I'm brewing today:

6gal
OG - 1.085
IBU - 20.3

12.14# Maris Otter
1.1 flaked oats
1.07 carapils
.64 crystal 120*
.43 crystal 90*
.43 crystal 40*
2x15oz canned pumpkin (in mash)
.61 granulated sugar (beginning of boil)

Water treatments (ppm)
Ca 79, Mg 10, Na 70, Cl 98, SO4 45, RA 92

Mash 150* for 40 minutes and 155* for 20 minutes. No mash out this time. I ran off until I had 6.5 gal, then measured the gravity, did a little math, and figured out I needed to add 1.3# of DME to reach my target OG. Once I added that, I continued lautering until I had my target pre-boil.

Hops and spices:

16g Amarillo pellets (7.5%) - 60 min
1T cinnamon, 1t fresh grated nutmeg, .5t ground clove - 60 min
16g Amarillo pellets (7.5%) - 10 min
1T cinnamon, 1t fresh grated nutmeg, .5t ground clove - 10 min

Pitching with nice starter of Wyeast 1968 London ESB



So here are the things I know I'm doing differently than the actual beer, and also things that I have suspicions about:

The yeast choice is an obvious diversion, but I love this yeast strain, I have a bunch of it, so I'm not changing it. Because I used 1968, I added the granulated sugar for some extra dryness.

Also on the list of ingredients I have bunch of is Amarillo pellets. I have to say, I got a little citrusy whiff in the flavor of the Schlafly, so I'm okay with the use of these hops. Normally I wouldn't use any flavor/aroma hops in a pumpkin beer, but when I mix them with the other spices that simultaneously go in the beer, it really smells nice. So I threw in a 10 min addition for fun.

Obviously I'm treating my spices like my hops. This is a carryover from my own pumpkin beer.

I'm questionable about the oats and carapils in the recipe, but this is another carryover. However, Schlafly has a medium-high mouthfeel, so even if I'm not correct I think I'll be aiming in the right direction.

Finally, the gourds. I basically ignored the butternut squash deal, and I also think that Schlafly has a pretty noticeable gourdy flavor. I don't think my recipe will achieve this, but honestly I just didn't want to take the time to roast canned pumpkin, and to deal with it in the boil. Adding pumpkin to the mash is the easiest (read: laziest) way to answer positively when someone says, "Did you actually put pumpkin in this beer?"

I'm nearing the end of the boil as I type this, so I'll continue to update as the beer progresses. Unfortunately, SWMBO could not be swayed when I said, "It's a little late to be making pumpkin beers, and this is a high alcohol beer so it might not be ready soon enough." But hey, are you gonna argue with your wife when she's telling you to make beer? That's what I thought. I suspect we'll be drinking this young...

I agree with the mouthfeel, that is the main difference between my pumpkin and theirs. I think the oats would be good.

It's resting in the fermentation chamber now. Everything finished up smoothly and the OG was dead on. I hit it with some oxygen after pitching, and will add some more later tonight.

Cool let me know how it turns out. I think i need more body and spice in mine.

I'm interested to hear about the update too. Schlafly is my favorite brewery, and the Pumpkin is my favorite beer. It'd sure be nice to stop paying $10 for a sixer when I want it!

Plus, my pumpkin beer (now gone) smelled like Schlafly, but didn't have the mouthfeel of it. Looking to upgrade.

Fermentation is wrapping up on this, though the current level of activity indicates I still have a couple more days. I feel like this is the first big beer I've made that I'm 100% satisfied with my process... all the brewing numbers were perfect, I felt great about sanitation, the temp control during fermentation has gone how I wanted.

In light of all this, I couldn't resist having a sample at the current 7-day mark. The gravity was at 1.026 (just 6 points from my target), and still visibly fermenting in the hydrometer tube. I'm pretty sure I'll meet or exceed my target. I don't like to make judgments on incompletely fermented beer, but I'll say that I'm pleased with the depth, richness, alcohol complexity, and spices so far.

Also, I've never seen a krausen quite like this beer had. The first few days looked pretty normal, but as the krausen began to recede, the foam bubbles seemed to get tighter and it developed this meringue-like consistency. On day 5 I noticed that the thermal activity wasn't enough to maintain the upper temps I was trying to achieve to finish fermentation, so I put a heat pad in and now it's finishing around 71-74.

I hope to cross the barrier from "fermenting" to "aging" pretty soon.

Couple questions:
1. Why did you go with the 1968 London instead of the 001 or 051 yeasts?
2. What was your target pre boil?
3. Your spice bill seems pretty intense.....it wasn't overpowering in your taste test?

1) It's my house yeast, I have a bunch of it, and I love it. As I mentioned, I'm not 100% trying to clone the beer.
2) Slightly more than 7gal, so that a 15% boiloff yields 6gal post boil
3) I've used this spice bill on every pumpkin ale I've made and it's great. I'd describe it as pretty middle of the road in terms of spice. To be honest, I'm not sure how much use I get out of the 60min addition, but I like my spice levels so I'm reluctant to change it.

This beer has been finished for a couple weeks and I've been drinking it, but I wanted to wait until I could do a side by side comparison with Schlafly before posting. Should be before the end of this weekend.

I profusely apologize for the delay in getting this to everyone but here's the official tasting notes between this beer I brewed and the Schlafly Pumpkin. Hopefully this will be useful in the future if someone wants to make some delicious pumpkin ale!



My beer is on the left, Schlafly on the right.

Obviously the color is a little different in the picture, but when you're just nonchalantly holding a glass of each the color is extremely close... my beer looks very brown in the picture but this isn't too accurate. More on the color later. My beer poured with a little extra head as well as head retention. This was especially impressive because it was noticeably less carbonated than Schalfly, which seemed to be at a pretty typical craft beer carbonation (maybe 2.2-2.5 vol). I should note that I recently had to move this keg, and so I kicked a bunch of crap up into this beer - it actually has been pouring brilliantly clear, possibly clearer than Schlafly. Still too dark, though.

In aroma, the Schlafly is really the essence of pumpkin pie. I know a lot of people say this about pumpkin beers, but I find this one to be the most true... it's really like hovering your nose over a piece of pie. It hits you strong (but appropriately) with the pumpkin pie spices of mostly cinnamon and nutmeg with a dash of clove. More importantly, I think Schlafly has some of the most gourdy/pumpkin smell of this beer style. My beer's aroma has a weakened version of Schlafly's spices, but there is also a huge butterscotch/caramel/toffee component that may overshadow the spices. If you really concentrate on my beer's aroma, you can smell the late addition of Amarillo which I now feel was inappropriate for the clone. However, it fits so unbelievably well that it seriously makes me want to explore citrus hops as an addition to spiced desserts.

Schlafly hits your tongue very lightly and maintains the spice presence from the aroma. The sweetness doesn't appear until the aftertaste, and it's moderate at that. The sweetness is tempered by "spice bitterness." My beer has a huge mouthfeel - extremely viscous. I have never seen a beer give visual confirmation of its thickness like this one: when you pour it, there is a brief second where the carbonation comes out of solution and it seems to be fighting its way to the surface of the beer through the thick, glutenous layers of beer. The flavor of my beer has a much heavier lean towards the caramel and butterscotch than Schlafly, and its sweetness is apparent throughout the tasting experience. It also is more candy-like, like little wisps of cherries.

I think a HUGE reason for the differences in the beer is my choice of English Ale yeast. As I mentioned in the OP, I knew this would cause some problems. The English strain is responsible for most of these excess butterscotch/caramel/toffee flavors. However, I really love this strain for this reason. My beer is intensely malty, and I will straight up tell you that if you don't like beers with a sweet character, you will hate this one. Despite the fact that I achieved 72% attenuation, the effect of the maltiness makes this beer come across as extremely filling and rich.

Also worth mentioning is the crystal malts in my recipe. I think the fact that my beer is slightly darker, and is also exhibiting a lot of candy, caramel, and sweet flavors is an indication that the crystal needs to be reduced. However, Schlafly is not without some of these notes so you can't just cut them down entirely. I'm thinking more emphasis on the lighter crystals - maybe even some C20 - and lowering the 90 and 120 to very low levels seems appropriate.

Regarding the mouthfeel, I think that my use of oats and carapils is not appropriate for Schlafly. Personally, I love the mouthfeel of my beer, but I think that Schlafly is able to achieve their body simply by the fact that the beer is 8% ABV and probably requires an OG of at least 1.075 or thereabouts. I've noticed that commercial breweries try to keep their grain bills as simple as possible and I think adding stuff like oats and carapils would be deemed unnecessary. This also makes it worth mentioning that my sugar addition was only added to get some extra attenuation - it wouldn't be necessary with an American ale yeast.

The extra spices in Schlafly are worth noting. This may be an effect of the English yeast esters overshadowing the spices, but I wouldn't hesitate to add 25-50% more cinnamon and nutmeg if you want to clone Schlafly. The clove seems right on.

Finally, I'd like to say that I feel my mission was accomplished, because SWMBO and I and her family did a tasting of several pumpkin beers including these two, plus some other commercial beers, plus some other pumpkin homebrews, and she picked mine as the #1 and Schlafly as #2... looks like I won't be trying to refine this recipe any further, but I hope it helps someone else along the way!

What an excellent post! Thank you for the information from beginning all the way down to the tastings. Wyeast 1968 is one of my favorites, too. I keep plenty on hand along with my other favorite WLP500. But I digress...

The idea to add the canned pumpkin to the mash water is very innovative. I've been trying to come up with an easier way to make a pumkpin ale without all the peeling, baking, etc. that goes with using this particular fruit.

Your grain bill is interesting,too. I'll probably adjust the crystal a bit for my nose/tastebuds but overall I have enjoyed learning from this thread. Your idea to adjust the spices to account for the Amarillo notes is duly noted as well. Would you consider using one 16g Citra instead of the two 16g Amarillo?

Did you bottle condition this ale?

I'm definitely adding this to my brew schedule...slated for early August so it is ready for November.

I've found Citra to have about 2-5% more alpha acid than Amarillo so you might cut back to 12g or so. I actually really liked the Amarillo as a complement to the spices - if you didn't know it was there, you wouldn't recognize it.

I kegged this batch.

As a side note, the rich alcohol plus the spices almost made you wonder if I used a Trappist yeast with this batch... might be something to try in the future?

kanzimonson said:

As a side note, the rich alcohol plus the spices almost made you wonder if I used a Trappist yeast with this batch... might be something to try in the future?

Click to expand...

Funny you should mention that...I used Trappist (WLP500) on my first pumpkin ale attempt and it kicked my friends'...uh...butts big time. Believe me when I say I am tempted to try it with your recipe

As for hops, I'm sticking to your recipe on this one. I've not tried using Amarillo yet and I look forward to seeing how it complements this ale. Besides I have other plans for the Citra. I do enjoy drinking my beers but I absolutely enjoy brewing them, too.

I'm interested in trying to make this but have just started getting into brewing. In fact I'm just about to move my very first beer to the secondary. Do you think there's any way this could be converted and retain anything close to the original? I'd eventually like to get to the point where I can do things like this unfortunately since I just started brewing I'm not wanting to get away from extract just yet. Oh...the beer is none other than the None More Black Vanilla Stout that I found on the site!

This recipe has become one of my holiday favorites. With my first batch I bumped up the Maris Otter a couple of pounds and ended up with a beer that was 9.3% That'll teach me! With the second batch I followed the recipe and got 7.4% which was still too high for it to be ready for the 2011 holidays.

I split a bottle with a friend this past weekend and while it smelled a bit green, the flavor is beginning to mellow. I'll give it another 4 weeks. As for the 9.2% batch...it will be the 2012 holidays before I know it and at least this year I'll be ready

What is your fermentation temp and schedule for this brew?

I recommend pitching at 62, fermenting at 63-65, and then kicking up the temp to 68-72 as fermentation wraps up. This is my fermentation schedule for every beer using this yeast, but especially for higher gravity ones I like to keep the temp low so it doesn't get crazy estery.

Wow. Great Post. Now that you know all this -- if I was trying to make a more direct clone of this -- would you be willing to provide the recipe that you think would more appropriately clone the original? We are thinking about brewing a pumpkin this weekend and really wanted to hit Schlafly on the nose if possible. not experienced brewers enough yet to make the adjustments ourselves. we'll start doing our own recipes probably in the next 3 months. as of now, we're just trying to get our processes down and numbers more accurate.

Alrighty, while this beer is still very fresh in my mind since I brew some approximation of it every year, I had to reread all of my notes. I also went to the Schlafly website and got all the info they had.

Here's a recipe that is closer to Schlafly than the one listed above, but I make no promises about directly cloning it. I DO have confidence that it'll make a tasty beer, though!

6gal
1.076 OG

*malt used is assuming 70% efficiency
77% american two row 13.93#
10% munich 1.86#
5% wheat malt .86#
5% crystal 40 .96#
2% crystal 120 .38#
1% chocolate malt (350L) .25#
2 x 15oz cans pumpkin puree, add to mash

Mash at 152*

Hops/Spices:
60min - 16 IBU of bittering
60min - 1T cinnamon, 1t fresh grated nutmeg, .5t ground clove
10min - 1T cinnamon, 1t fresh grated nutmeg, .5t ground clove

Consider increasing the cinnamon and nutmeg if you're not confident in your spices' freshness.

Pitch at 62* with American Ale 2 (WLP005 or Wy1272).
Let rise to 65* and ferment here for a few days, then as things begin to slow down, raise by 1 degree per day to a max around 72-75. Allow plenty of time to finish.

That's about the best I can do right now! I cannot emphasize the importance of sanitization, a healthy pitch of yeast, and proper fermentation temps enough. If you cannot do these three things, it seriously is not worth your time even trying to brew this beer.

Ya know, I'm thinking about the color and I think the chocolate malt should either be reduced to .5% (cut the weight in half), or use pale chocolate instead. 1% will probably make it too brown.

Thanks! I'm really looking forward to a brew this weekend. will definitely sanitize properly

you mentioned Amarillo may have been a little robust for this recipe. what do you think about 0.6oz Marynka @ 60min. only 1 addition.

Planning to go purchase items for this today.

I think I am going to stick with your recipe. I like the little changes. Plus I really want to try the Maris Otter since everyone is raving about it.

I also decided to go with the WLP500 to see how it comes out. I will report back for sure.

Now I am thinking if I can vamp this up a notch with adding some Jim Beam Soaked Cinnamon Sticks?? What you all think?

Brewed today and I must say the taste is of pure heaven. OG was said to be 1.078 and I hit 1.080 after a 90 minute mash.

Color is awesome and taste is awesome and smell is a punch. As soon as you step out the house onto the deck it hit you right in the face.

Getting this recipe together. One of the original posts stated, "Also worth mentioning is the crystal malts in my recipe. I think the fact that my beer is slightly darker, and is also exhibiting a lot of candy, caramel, and sweet flavors is an indication that the crystal needs to be reduced. However, Schlafly is not without some of these notes so you can't just cut them down entirely. I'm thinking more emphasis on the lighter crystals - maybe even some C20 - and lowering the 90 and 120 to very low levels seems appropriate."
1. Anymore thoughts on this? Or keep as is?
2. Could I swap Marris Otter for 2-row? If so, keep same amt?


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

dzachery said:

Getting this recipe together. One of the original posts stated, "Also worth mentioning is the crystal malts in my recipe. I think the fact that my beer is slightly darker, and is also exhibiting a lot of candy, caramel, and sweet flavors is an indication that the crystal needs to be reduced. However, Schlafly is not without some of these notes so you can't just cut them down entirely. I'm thinking more emphasis on the lighter crystals - maybe even some C20 - and lowering the 90 and 120 to very low levels seems appropriate."
1. Anymore thoughts on this? Or keep as is?
2. Could I swap Marris Otter for 2-row? If so, keep same amt?


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

Click to expand...

1. I am not sure about so I cannot help you there

2. I had never used Maris Otter until this brew. I would highly suggest staying with it given the overall taste you are looking to produce. Mine came out with much most boastful taste and bolder taste than it would normally given I use 2-Row. I may end up making this my go to for beers. I really like the extra is pushes off. So unless cost is a significant killer(which is was $2.00 more than 2-Row for a 10lb bag), I suggest sticking with the Maris.

He did post up another recipe a couple pages back that you make want to check out.

The recipes on this thread aren't clones. They're off on several things. I'm sure they result in a good beer, but I can say with certainty they're not clones.

They don't use MO they simply use 2 row.
The Munich ratio is way off
They only use crystal 60L
They use table sugar to bump up ABV as well as thin the beer for this malt heavy beer

The spices are added on the cold side using a special technique to get a crisp spice profile. It also allows more surface contact to the spices. But other methods can get something close.

The main spice is cinnamon by a lot. Then nutmeg, and clove.

Is all dry spices, and the cinnamon is used whole to avoid pectin

And the technique they use for the pumpkin addition is different too

The 60min hop schedule is correct. There is no hop character in the beer. It's simply a balancing bitter addition.

And they simply use a clean American yeast like chico

I have a clone recipe. Out of respect for the brewery, I have no desire to post it. But that info above should help you get closer.

Swiller said:

The recipes on this thread aren't clones. They're off on several things. I'm sure they result in a good beer, but I can say with certainty they're not clones.

They don't use MO they simply use 2 row.
The Munich ratio is way off
They only use crystal 60L
They use table sugar to bump up ABV as well as thin the beer for this malt heavy beer

The spices are added on the cold side using a special technique to get a crisp spice profile. It also allows more surface contact to the spices. But other methods can get something close.

The main spice is cinnamon by a lot. Then nutmeg, and clove.

Is all dry spices, and the cinnamon is used whole to avoid pectin

And the technique they use for the pumpkin addition is different too

The 60min hop schedule is correct. There is no hop character in the beer. It's simply a balancing bitter addition.

And they simply use a clean American yeast like chico

I have a clone recipe. Out of respect for the brewery, I have no desire to post it. But that info above should help you get closer.

Click to expand...

So I think it was stated in the first post that this was just sort of off the taste and his rendition.

Thanks for the information provided but at the same time, for your 1st post ever on this forum, its basically to say hey I have the clone recipe and I am not giving it to you all.

Thanks for the info though. I like my rendition and I know its going to change up nicely once it fermented.

mister704 said:

So I think it was stated in the first post that this was just sort of off the taste and his rendition.

Thanks for the information provided but at the same time, for your 1st post ever on this forum, its basically to say hey I have the clone recipe and I am not giving it to you all.

Thanks for the info though. I like my rendition and I know its going to change up nicely once it fermented.

Click to expand...

So what if its a first post? Does that change anything? And yes, I see it's not "suppose to be" a clone even though it's titled as a clone vs an "inspired by" beer. The title should be changed. I'm sure it's not suppose to be a clone because the attempt failed at being a clone—ultimately what the goal was.

I simply gave tips to get closer... Sorry it bothers you that I choose not to give out the clone recipe.

It just seems weird that you seemed to join just to say that you arent going to give a recipe that you have. The info that you gave is a helpful guide and hopefuly you can enjoy your time on these forums as a contributer and a reader.

FYI you can't change the title on this forum.

tmendick said:

It just seems weird that you seemed to join just to say that you arent going to give a recipe that you have. The info that you gave is a helpful guide and hopefuly you can enjoy your time on these forums as a contributer and a reader.

FYI you can't change the title on this forum.

Click to expand...

Well perhaps you're all jumping to conclusions that I've never been on this site before simply because my profile states 1 post.

It's a shame everything has to result to some kind of drama. Yes, I choose not to post the recipe for my own reasons; however I provided good information to help formulate a much closer "clone."

I wish people could say thanks instead of pointing out something obvious and thinking it's a conspiracy. I've already started regretting providing what info I have due to the lack of appreciation—seems to be a trend around here... I'll go back to not posting anymore.

FYI... Titles can be change by the admins.

I made this recipe last weekend. the taste seems great. didn't quite hit our numbers but that's due to amateurism. I know where we made our mistakes and can correct going forward. one brew at a time. Really looking forward to this. will keep everyone posted on the progress.

So mine is literally AWESOME. Its like nothing I have ever tasted.

1. Pitched 1.5L WLP500 starter at 62F and let it raise up to 65F by itself.
2. Once at 65F, had it sit there for 7 days
3. Now that fermentation is wrapping up, I increased it to 68F for 2 day
4. Now she is at 70F. She will be there for 2 days. And continue to do the same until 74F where she will sit for a week.

Starting OG = 1.080
Testing OG after 7 days at 65F = 1.019

(1.080-1.019) x 131 = 7.99% abv

So I am already at 8% and I am pretty sure it is going to increase seeing that as I have been raising the temp, I have definitely started hearing more blow-off tube action.

UPDATE!!!

Checked it today and racked it to secondary. Fermented all the way down from 1.080 to 1.015 making it 8.5%. And I am so happy I chose to go with the WLP500 yeast as it gives it a taste like I have never had.

Pure Awesomeness!!

You suggested that they use a different technique for pumpkin (squash) additions - any further info there? Different how? Boiled? Secondary? Etc?

Someone also suggested somewhere they used pumpkin juice....

Swiller said:

The recipes on this thread aren't clones. They're off on several things. I'm sure they result in a good beer, but I can say with certainty they're not clones.

They don't use MO they simply use 2 row.
The Munich ratio is way off
They only use crystal 60L
They use table sugar to bump up ABV as well as thin the beer for this malt heavy beer

The spices are added on the cold side using a special technique to get a crisp spice profile. It also allows more surface contact to the spices. But other methods can get something close.

The main spice is cinnamon by a lot. Then nutmeg, and clove.

Is all dry spices, and the cinnamon is used whole to avoid pectin

And the technique they use for the pumpkin addition is different too

The 60min hop schedule is correct. There is no hop character in the beer. It's simply a balancing bitter addition.

And they simply use a clean American yeast like chico

I have a clone recipe. Out of respect for the brewery, I have no desire to post it. But that info above should help you get closer.

Click to expand...

Swiller, I appreciate your input and your honor in not posting the exact clone.

Has anyone tinkered with this recipe in light of Swiller's input? I'm still inexperienced in judging recipes, but was hoping to get as close to the Schlafly as possible.

Sorry for dragging back an old post...but I'm confused on the pumpkin part.

Do I just open the can and pour it into my mash and stir, or do I bake it first (as in other recipes I have seen for pumpkin beer)