Hop Rationing

I placed an order at my LHBS for about 30 gallons of AG batches, plus some extra carboys and the whatnot. When I got there, all of a sudden the hops I requested were a problem. I understand they may need to do some substitutions here and there, but I was told I had a 4oz per 10 gallon batch ration of hops. So all they would sell me was enough for 2 of the 3 batches I put together. I understand that they are limited to what they actually get, but it bothered me because I was looking back at all the extract recipes that I've picked up from them (about 10 or so 5 gallon recipes). I ran an average on the extract batches I've bough from them and it averaged out to about 3oz of hops per 5 gallon batch. So if I picked up one of their 5 gallon recipes I would get the hops I'd need, but buying AG ingredients I get rationed lower?

I'd be pretty ticked off if they did that to me. Did you order the hops and all by phone and they pulled this when you showed up? Definately not a way to get return customers. My LHBS has a pretty reasonable policy of 1 oz per # malt extract or 1 oz per 2# of grain.

Jamo99 said:

I'd be pretty ticked off if they did that to me. Did you order the hops and all by phone and they pulled this when you showed up? Definately not a way to get return customers. My LHBS has a pretty reasonable policy of 1 oz per # malt extract or 1 oz per 2# of grain.

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I emailed them my order and they called me and went over the order. The guy told me everything that I wanted was fine, then when I got there, what I wanted wasnt fine. Amount and type. (I'm not broken up over substitutions. I told them whatever they got will be fine). It kinda sucks, but maybe I'm just making beers that are overly hoppy.. Any thoughts on averaging 3oz per 5 gallons?

Every time I read another hops shortage horror story like this, I make a special trip to the LHBS for another bag of hops. I'm trying to stockpile enough to last to the end of the year or so. I'm getting there, I think.

stuff like this makes me glad I have almost 3lbs in the freezer...

I wish I had like 172 pounds in the freezer.

I hope we never see the hop situation like this again. You then have to dry them so you need a dehydrator. To store properly you need a mylar bag sealer and nitrogen to purge the bags. We are all victims of this hop problem and if you saw it coming you bought as much as you would need providing the money was available. If you have no hops stored it is very costly to brew hoppy beers right now. Let us hope for much better times in 2009.

Hagen said:

stuff like this makes me glad I have almost 3lbs in the freezer...

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Stuff like this makes me glad I don't like hoppy beers. I tend to underhop and like it that way. I'm not entering any contests or anything like that so it suits me fine. My last batch had .75oz of hops in it. The one before that had .5 oz.

tentacles said:

Every time I read another hops shortage horror story like this, I make a special trip to the LHBS for another bag of hops. I'm trying to stockpile enough to last to the end of the year or so. I'm getting there, I think.

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And that further exacerbates the problem...hoarding when you don't need them.

carl spakler said:

And that further exacerbates the problem...hoarding when you don't need them.

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Agreed.

But, back on topic, four ounces for a ten gallon batch is VERY tight for many styles, and makes many other virtually impossible. But you can do it if you have super-alpha hops for bittering.

I would be most ticked off that they did not bring up the problem until I showed up at the store. At that point, I probably would just leave and let them know that, if they could not let me know about the limit when I talked to them on the phone, then they can just keep all those hops for someone else.


TL

TexLaw said:

I would be most ticked off that they did not bring up the problem until I showed up at the store. At that point, I probably would just leave and let them know that, if they could not let me know about the limit when I talked to them on the phone, then they can just keep all those hops for someone else.

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Ditto. Whether or not you agree with their rationing, that is just rude.

TexLaw said:

Agreed.

But, back on topic, four ounces for a ten gallon batch is VERY tight for many styles, and makes many other virtually impossible. But you can do it if you have super-alpha hops for bittering.

I would be most ticked off that they did not bring up the problem until I showed up at the store. At that point, I probably would just leave and let them know that, if they could not let me know about the limit when I talked to them on the phone, then they can just keep all those hops for someone else.


TL

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It was suggested that I talk to the owner about the situation. While I'm ticked that I got a different story once I got to the store, my real point of contention is that I can still get extract recipes that average 3oz per 5 gallon batch.

I'd like to keep supporting the local guy. For the most part everyone there is very helpful (including the manager who rationed me). It just seems a bit off that I can go in and buy 6 extract recipes and get the hops, but not if I'm making my own recipes.

:beatingdeadhorse:

janzik said:

It was suggested that I talk to the owner about the situation.

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I would suggest that that fellow talk to the owner about the hops situation and that I would talk to the owner about the lack of communication situation. I would also let them both know that I may return after both situations were resolved to my satisfaction.


TL

janzik said:

...Any thoughts on averaging 3oz per 5 gallons?

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To me 3 oz of hops is a lot. I only use 1/2 oz of 6% in my Weizens...

I'ts pretty tough right now--my LHBS limits you to 4oz and you usually have to buy other stuff. They're pretty nice about it, but they don't really have much in the way of hops anyway.

Even buying hops online is difficult:

beer-wine.com - tried ordering from them twice. I was ordering a bunch of yeasts and equipment and twice they declined my purchase saying that I wasn't buying enough grain to justify buying 3 oz of hops. If that's the way they want to play it they'll never see a dime from me.

morebeer.com - I don't think they limit you, but they don't have much in stock.

austinhomebrew.com - pretty limited selection, prices aren't bad (considering the shortage) and they only limit you to 4oz of each variety which is fair.

northernbrewer.com - good selection, no limits, but some of the highest prices I've seen.

midwestsupplies.com - best selection I've seen by far, reasonable prices, 10oz total limit (except for some low AA% varieties)

The worst thing about the shortage (besides the high prices and weight restrictions) is that you can get hops, but it's very tough to find quality noble hops.

I think my LHBS policy is fair given the times, I think most people would find this acceptable. Maybe you could show this to your LHBS, maybe by some stroke of luck they'll change their policy.

Currently our policy is to sell 6 oz. of hops for each $50.00 order. For example, if someone buys $47.00 of supplies, they can purchase 6 oz. of hops. If they order, for example, $72.00 of supplies, they can buy 12 oz. of hops, and so on. Thanks for your consideration.

Williams has a pretty decent selection and pricing still. They just ask that 1/2 of value of your order be something other than hops. I ordered an O2 system from them and about $30 worth of hops at the same time. No problems.

Edit: Actually, I just checked. Their selection is getting limited but the pricing is still reasonable.

maltMonkey said:

beer-wine.com - tried ordering from them twice. I was ordering a bunch of yeasts and equipment and twice they declined my purchase saying that I wasn't buying enough grain to justify buying 3 oz of hops. If that's the way they want to play it they'll never see a dime from me.

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Having been to their store a few times, IMO you are smart to avoid them. My last trip I felt as though no one in there cared that I was trying to spend money.

They didn't have a few things on my recipe, and they either recommended incorrect substitutions for grains or offered no help whatsoever despite their being an identical yeast (White Labs vs. Wyest) that I happened to buy purely by luck.

No one wanted to answer my questions, and god forbid I had more than one question. As soon as they went out of their way to give me a poor answer they ran off forcing me to find someone else to help with my next question.

Poorly run business from my experiences.

carl spakler said:

And that further exacerbates the problem...hoarding when you don't need them.

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I have a little over a pound of hops - if that's hoarding, I'm guilty! I call it smart to buy before the market goes insane. I have a supply of hops that I like that will last me until next year, when hopefully, the situation won't be so crazy. If I buy them now, or later, it'd still be the same amount, the difference would be that I'd pay more for them, or be forced to accept substitutions. I know my LHBS is nearly out of Cascade.




Is it hoarding grain to buy 55lb sacks and use as needed?

tentacles said:

Is it hoarding grain to buy 55lb sacks and use as needed?

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Good point. 1 year ago bulk buys were economics, but now it is hoarding. I have zero stored hops. Like the rest of us I have made a few sacrifices in the selection. It will not stop me from brewing, it has actually led me towards some different style beers - so in a way (this is a huge stretch) it has opened up some different flavors that I otherwise would not have tried. I used to be stuck on APA/IPA and anything else with a fair amount of hops.

So whats next year suppose to be like for hops? Any word if they are going to plant more acreage? Or any info at all???

I think I remember vaguely being taught something about supply and demand once. Perhaps rationing is an inherently idiotic strategy leading to idiotic purchasing behaviors. I vote for raising the price of highly demanded goods and not giving any more bulk discounts. I stopped purchasing (forever) at a HBST b/c of such rude behavior. Another less draconian HBST retailer has retained my $500.00 per year gaget habit and I'm willing to pay the 400% markup from an online retailer that charges the market value of their product.