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Old 06-05-2012, 02:30 AM   #1
Vertra
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Default Help with Rice Ale

I (finally) got a hold of a 6 pack of "Samurai" by Great Divide and absolutely loved this beer. I know there is a stigma attached to rice in beers, but I feel like Samurai would change the minds of many if they could just try it. I have no experience using rice in homebrewing so I decided I would ask on here. I am not looking to make a clone but I am intrigued by the style since I do not have the equipment for lagering. I brew all grain.

Some questions and comments:

1. What % of the grist should rice be if I am aiming in the ballpark of 5.5-6% ABV, 9 SRM finished product ?

2. Do I approach this like a hefe where it is basically just a combination of base grain and wheat, or in this case rice?

3. Do I cook the rice and then mash it with the rest of my barley? I assume it must be plain white rice... not jasmine white or anything fancy. I do not know how much fermentables I can get out of these.

4. I am aiming to get a good amount of the estery, fruity smells out of the rice that appears in sake and many hefeweizens... that being said what sort of yeast is appropriate for this? I have a personal love for WYEAST 3638.

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Old 06-05-2012, 04:52 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertra View Post
I (finally) got a hold of a 6 pack of "Samurai" by Great Divide and absolutely loved this beer. I know there is a stigma attached to rice in beers, but I feel like Samurai would change the minds of many if they could just try it. I have no experience using rice in homebrewing so I decided I would ask on here. I am not looking to make a clone but I am intrigued by the style since I do not have the equipment for lagering. I brew all grain.

Some questions and comments:

1. What % of the grist should rice be if I am aiming in the ballpark of 5.5-6% ABV, 9 SRM finished product ?

2. Do I approach this like a hefe where it is basically just a combination of base grain and wheat, or in this case rice?

3. Do I cook the rice and then mash it with the rest of my barley? I assume it must be plain white rice... not jasmine white or anything fancy. I do not know how much fermentables I can get out of these.

4. I am aiming to get a good amount of the estery, fruity smells out of the rice that appears in sake and many hefeweizens... that being said what sort of yeast is appropriate for this? I have a personal love for WYEAST 3638.
Personally, I'd go with flaked rice (added along with your regular mash) and forgo the cereal mash. Can't really comment on the yeast as I have no prior experience with it.
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:26 PM   #3
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What % of the grist do you think is advisable for flaked rice if I am going for strong rice overtones?

Thanks.

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Old 06-05-2012, 08:37 PM   #4
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I can't speak for flaked rice, but I have used whole grain basmati before. If I remember correctly it was 50% of the grist. I cooked it like normal and then added it to my tun and mashed it with the barley.

Edit: On second thought I think I ran it through my grain mill before cooking. I'm not sure if that accomplished anything though.

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Old 06-06-2012, 02:12 AM   #5
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For cereal grains I believe you just have to "gelatanize" them by cooking them before mashing, otherwise you wont get the fermentables out of them.

So for a 10 gallon batch im leaning toward 15lbs flaked rice, 15lbs american 2 row, then maybe 1lb of something to bump the SRMs to 10 or so. Does this sound appropriate?

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Old 06-06-2012, 04:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by TastySalmon View Post
I can't speak for flaked rice, but I have used whole grain basmati before. If I remember correctly it was 50% of the grist. I cooked it like normal and then added it to my tun and mashed it with the barley.

Edit: On second thought I think I ran it through my grain mill before cooking. I'm not sure if that accomplished anything though.
I have brewed with brown basmati a couple times - purchased out of bulk bins at Winco grocery.

The first time it was in a brown ale, about 15%. I pressure cooked it according to directions for eating -- 2 parts water by volume (a cup of brown basmati weighs about 6 ounces), 18 minutes at pressure then take it off the heat and wait for the pressure to come off on it's own.

I was doing BIAB so i added it to the grain bag and stirred until it was well mixed.

Turned out well. great silky smooth mouth feel, hints of basmati flavor and aroma. I'm proud of that beer, and got good complements on it.

2nd time i made a kolsch with 30% brown basmati, pressure cooked again but with about 2.5 parts water by volume, and then added it to about 25% of my strike water in a separate pot. I heated both pots to my target temperature, poured the regular strike water into the mash tun, poured in the non-rice portion of the grain bill, and then poured in the goopy rice soup portion of the strike water. Stirred and mashed as usual.

That brew is clarifying in a secondary right now. as soon as i get some more keg seals in i will be cold crashing it, then adding some gelatin fining and lagering it for a month.

In neither of these brews was the rice crushed. I now have a corona mill and will be crushing the rice in the future.

In both brews, the brown basmati created a great deal of floaty sediment that didn't really drop out until the beer was fully conditioned. I'm hoping that the gelatin helps that along in the kolsch, as the kolsch style should be very clear.

I proudly and unabashedly recommend trying brown basmati as an adjunct.


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Originally Posted by Vertra View Post
For cereal grains I believe you just have to "gelatanize" them by cooking them before mashing, otherwise you wont get the fermentables out of them.

So for a 10 gallon batch im leaning toward 15lbs flaked rice, 15lbs american 2 row, then maybe 1lb of something to bump the SRMs to 10 or so. Does this sound appropriate?
Yes, cereal grains have to have their starches pre-gelatinized. Flaked rice, flaked maize, flaked rye, and flaked oats are all precooked and then dried. They're also really expensive, and nobody seems to be able to tell me the difference between flaked oats and instant oatmeal.

The only thing about your suggestion that i would be concerned about is diastatic power. The rice provides no amylase enzymes, and at 50% I'm not sure you will get full conversion unless your base malt is 6-row or maybe pilsner. Or maybe you can get away with just mashing for 90 minutes -- I don't know enough about it. You can also just add more amylase to the mash if your LHBS or whoever you order from sells it.
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:32 PM   #7
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I settled on Wyeast 3942 I think.

"Isolated from a small Belgian brewery, this strain produces beers with moderate esters and minimal phenolics. Apple, bubblegum and plum-like aromas blend nicely with malt and hops. This strain will finish dry with a hint of tartness."

I am approaching this from the direction of a hefe since that is what Samurai reminded me of... I am not sure which hops I would like to use yet. Probably 2oz of bittering and 2 oz of floral to bring out the tropical notes... thinking maybe citra or amarillo.

Still not quite clear on the % of grist for the rice though... is 50% too big of a proportion? I have no idea what is considered "normal" in cases like this. Any help on this matter would be wonderful.

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Old 06-12-2012, 11:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertra View Post
I settled on Wyeast 3942 I think.

"Isolated from a small Belgian brewery, this strain produces beers with moderate esters and minimal phenolics. Apple, bubblegum and plum-like aromas blend nicely with malt and hops. This strain will finish dry with a hint of tartness."

I am approaching this from the direction of a hefe since that is what Samurai reminded me of... I am not sure which hops I would like to use yet. Probably 2oz of bittering and 2 oz of floral to bring out the tropical notes... thinking maybe citra or amarillo.

Still not quite clear on the % of grist for the rice though... is 50% too big of a proportion? I have no idea what is considered "normal" in cases like this. Any help on this matter would be wonderful.
it comes down to diastatic power -- e.g. how much amylase is in the mash to convert the rice starches to sugars.

6-row barley and pilsner have more diastatic power than 2-row.

http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/01/04...ing-your-beer/

with a long mash time and a 6-row base it may be possible to go as high as 50%.

Oh, and rice can be malted - easier than barley because you can immerse it in water.
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:10 AM   #9
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Wow. Interesting. I want to hear how this turns out. Especially that basmati Kolsch. I just kegged a Kolsch. What did the rice do to your beer?

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Old 06-13-2012, 02:34 AM   #10
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The basmati kolsch spent 2 weeks in primary and about the last 10 days in secondary. I will be kegging and crashing and lagering for up to 4 weeks as soon as i can get a round tuit.

The hydro samples have tasted light and clean and a bit like basmati rice. I'm looking forward to finding out what it's like all carbed up.

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