APA and Wheat Recipe Critique

My wedding's coming up and I'm planning on brewing a couple beers for the guests. Since I'm in China and bold taste in beer hasn't really caught on yet, I'm thinking of a moderately-hopped APA and a Wheat. I've done an APA and my current recipe idea follows it pretty closely, but I've never done a wheat, so I'm a bit lost there. The APA will be brewed in the coming weekend, so I'm hoping to have the recipe down in the next day or two so I can order the missing ingredients (currently need more 2-row, wheat malt, and Willamette hops if I'm gonna use them in the wheat - hops on hand are Chinook, Citra, Simcoe, Cascade, and an eensy-weensy bit of Nugget).

Living in China limits my ingredients quite a bit, so while I want to hear suggestions, I won't necessarily be able to implement them. Notably, my only base malt option is domestically-malted Aussie 2-row. Likewise, some of my grains are a bit odd thanks to the home-roasted nature of the Chinese homebrew shops' specialty grains, and don't get me started on the yeasts...

Finally, I'll be bottling these, if it makes a difference.

tl;dr - Need help on an APA and a Wheat.

Pu-er Pale Ale

Grainbill:
4 kg - 2-row
.45 kg - C60
.35 kg - Munich 20L
.15 kg - Biscuit 10L

Hops:
1 oz Cascade @ FWH, 10 min, and whirlpool

Yeast:
US-05 or dry 1332 Northwest Ale

Post-primary:
4 day dry hop with 4 oz Pu-er Tea leaves

Carbonate to 2.3? 2.5?

Beersmith Stats: OG 1.051, FG 1.008, 33 IBU, 10.1 SRM

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Wedding Wheat

Grainbill:
2 kg - 2-row
1.75 kg - wheat malt
.25 kg - C60
.25 kg - Munich 20

Hops:
FWH - .25 oz Chinook or Nugget (should I go 60 minute boil instead?)
10 min - 1 oz Willamette

Yeast:
WB-06, Y1433 (dry, weiss yeast according to the vendor), or US-05

Carbonate to ??? (I'm stabbing in the dark at 2.8 right now on the recipe)

Unfortunately, 60L is the only Crystal malt I can get cheaply and easily. I do have about a pound of Carapils if that would be better. Although honey malt seems to be a favored specialty grain for the few wheat beer recipes I've read, that's not an option for me, and I'm afraid it might be kind've boring without a bit of sweetness, hence the C60 in the first place. I also have a kilo of 90L wheat malt (and could get more before the brew) that might be fun to use in there somehow, knowing of course that the color would be notably darker if I did go that route.

Again, I'm totally lost, on the wheat beer front especially, so I would love suggestions.

Are you able to get any New Zealand or Australian hops? I used Galaxy in my last American Wheat and it came out very nice. Nelson, Galaxy or Mosaic would all probably a little more character than Willamette. I'm not crazy about using crystal 60 in the wheat, and I'd probably balance out the wheat/2-row if possible.

Crystal is kinda out of place for most wheat beers. Generally, you want to get the sweet/bitter balance by just lowering the bitterness vs adding sweetness.

If you want to mix in some other flavors, you could add citrus zest (lemon, orange etc) to the last 10 minutes of the boil. Or, you could make some simple syrups of any number of fruits and then just add a splash of that to the glass as you pour. Could be a nice local twist to a standard wheat beer.

I made a very good, very simple Hefe...5 gal (19L batch)
5# wheat malt
5# Pilsen Malt

.5oz Saaz @60min
.25oz Saaz @30min
.25oz Saaz @ 15min

WB-06

Let it ferment @ 21C for 10 days and keg...best enjoyed fresh


I also have an El Hefe' fermenting

5# Wheat Malt
5# Pilsen Malt

.25 El Dorado @ 60min
.5oz El Dorado @ 10min
.5oz El Dorado @ 5min
.75oz El Dorado @ 0min

WB-06

Let it ferment @ 21C for 10 days and keg...best enjoyed fresh

I agree, I'd leave the crystal out of the wheat, especially a darker one like C-60. You can just go 50/50 wheat and 2-row but a little munich is fine. I would probably suggest doing an American style and use US-05 for your crowd, just thinking that the phenolics and banana may be off putting for those not used to it. I agree the NZ/Australain hops are nice in wheats, or can you get sorachi ace? That adds a nice lemony flavor. If not I'd probably add a little cascade at flameout for a bit of citrus character, and I don't know that I'd bitter a wheat with chinook. I love it in APA and IPA's but the bittering can be a bit harsh. I usually use a milder hop often whatever I've chosen to finish with.

No luck for NZ/Aussie hops. No Chinook for bittering the wheat - got it. Should I go with an aroma hop there, instead? I've got plenty of options there with my main shop: Willamette, Mt. Hood, Saaz, Hersbrucker, Sladek, Palisade, Perle, and an unspecified Golding, along with the others that I've got on hand. They're also selling Amarillo, Centennial, and Zeus now as well, slowly expanding their selection.

For the grist of the wheat, I'll definitely cut out the crystal and replace it with more wheat malt. The Munich's there to lend a bit of extra maltiness, since a lot of folks tend to do wheats (and many other beers) with maltier base malts; since I only have a pretty basic 2-row available, I often toss in a handful of Munich instead. Would that be a beneficial addition, or would half and half 2-row and wheat malt be a better choice?

Hi there. For what it's worth, for the wheat I would recommend Perle for bittering and Centennial for flavor/aroma. US-05 for the yeast. And yes I would toss in the Munich. That's what I would make without any concerns if I couldn't make a test batch first.

I'd say any of those first hops you listed would be fine for a wheat. Usually I don't worry too much about what is used for the bittering, it's just that chinook has a pretty characteristic bite like I mentioned. Amarillo is a nice aroma hop for an american wheat, or the cascade or citra that you already have. Any of those noble or noble-like ones would work as well but would tend to be more subtle. I think your plan with the 2-row, wheat, and munich is fine.

Crap - connection issues dumped my last attempt to respond...

I'm now thinking 2kg each 2-row and wheat malt, add in .25 munich 20L. 60 min/FWH (suggestions?) - 0.75 oz Cascade, 5 min - 0.5 oz Amarillo. Whirlfloc for some clarity. US-05 for clean flavor.

For a 5.5 gallon batch (my target, but I usually end up 8-10% shy of my targets), that's roughly 1.045 OG, shooting for 1.008-1.010 FG for 4.7-5% ABV. 4.5 SRM, 20 IBU.

Suggestions on carbonation level while we're at it? I think I've heard that wheat beers (or is it Hef's specifically?) are supposed to be carbed a bit higher, like 2.8. Or is an American Wheat better in the 2.3-2.5 range?

FatDragon said:

Crap - connection issues dumped my last attempt to respond...

I'm now thinking 2kg each 2-row and wheat malt, add in .25 munich 20L. 60 min/FWH (suggestions?) - 0.75 oz Cascade, 5 min - 0.5 oz Amarillo. Whirlfloc for some clarity. US-05 for clean flavor.

For a 5.5 gallon batch (my target, but I usually end up 8-10% shy of my targets), that's roughly 1.045 OG, shooting for 1.008-1.010 FG for 4.7-5% ABV. 4.5 SRM, 20 IBU.

Suggestions on carbonation level while we're at it? I think I've heard that wheat beers (or is it Hef's specifically?) are supposed to be carbed a bit higher, like 2.8. Or is an American Wheat better in the 2.3-2.5 range?

Click to expand...

When I bottle condition a Hefe, I carb to 3.8 vol....when I keg, everything is at 2.4vols...
with wheat beers I don't worry about it clearing...I like the haze

Jacinthebox said:

When I bottle condition a Hefe, I carb to 3.8 vol....when I keg, everything is at 2.4vols...
with wheat beers I don't worry about it clearing...I like the haze

Click to expand...

Since I'm making this primarily for Chinese wedding guests who won't have much experience drinking any beer other than light, low-gravity lagers like domestic Tsingtao and Snow, I'm hoping to keep the wheat at least moderately clear in order to minimize the learning curve. And since I'm pitching US-05 instead of a wheat or hefe yeast, I'm wondering if this isn't really a hefe and rather more of an American Wheat Ale, if there is such a thing, which might be better off carbed in the 2.3-2.5 range that most American ales tend to inhabit.

A big part of my reluctance here is that higher carb numbers kind've scare me - 2.5 is about as high as I've gone with any beer so far and I'm a bit terrified of bottle bombs or gushers; I would hate to lose roughly half of the beer I'm serving at my wedding (and ~200 bottles is already woefully inadequate for 150+ guests) because I overcarbed the bottles.

Us05 should clear it nicely...and just carb it at 2.4 or 2.5 volumes...use some irish moss or whirlfloc and cold crash if u can...that will help clear it

Jacinthebox said:

Us05 should clear it nicely...and just carb it at 2.4 or 2.5 volumes...use some irish moss or whirlfloc and cold crash if u can...that will help clear it

Click to expand...

Thanks. Sounds like a plan.

I'm still a bit of a noob in some respects; I've used Whirlfloc a number of times but never been certain that it's making a difference. It goes in the boil at 10 or 15 minutes from flameout, and then I'm not really 100% certain whether I need to do anything else or if it's doing all it does by going in. I've tried manually whirlpooling before with my paddle (gotten the whirlpool cone down within a couple inches of the bottom, but it shallows quickly and then levels out within a minute or so) but never gotten anything resembling a trub cone. Any advice or clarifications there?

FatDragon said:

Thanks. Sounds like a plan.

I'm still a bit of a noob in some respects; I've used Whirlfloc a number of times but never been certain that it's making a difference. It goes in the boil at 10 or 15 minutes from flameout, and then I'm not really 100% certain whether I need to do anything else or if it's doing all it does by going in. I've tried manually whirlpooling before with my paddle (gotten the whirlpool cone down within a couple inches of the bottom, but it shallows quickly and then levels out within a minute or so) but never gotten anything resembling a trub cone. Any advice or clarifications there?

Click to expand...

the trub will settle in the primary nicely when you use irish moss/whirlfloc even without whirlpooling....just rack off the top without sucking up the yeast/trub....