Anti-Hero Clone Attempt

Hi everyone,
I have recently searched the interweb for a clone recipe of Revolution Anti-Hero, but to no avail. I would love to try to clone this fantastic flagship American IPA with an ABV of 6.5 and IBU at a very drinkable and smooth 70. It is sweet and citrusy, with floral and citrus nose, that you don’t have to try to smell. I emailed the brewer. No response. That leaves me, home brew equipment, an open Saturday and you guys to come up with a suitable recipe.

Since I would like to try to clone this myself, I have to develop a recipe, step one, right? However, I am having a difficult time attempting to…. Come up with the recipe. My worry is the bitterness, I have made IPA’s before but they all end up a lil too bitter like harsh, not smooth. I recently read an article on Mr. Malty that really got me thinking. A link to the article, on late hop additions is here:

http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.php

The thought is that all of the bitterness is extracted from the hops with late hop additions. No hops go into the boil until 20 are left. Has anyone tries this before? If so, was the bitterness as smooth as described?

Anyway, knowing the hop profile for Anti Hero is a combination of Armarillo, Warrior, Chinook and Centenial I was thinking this recipe would work. I am completely open to suggestions, or if anyon has successfully clones this before, I would be very interested in the recipe. Here’s what I got:

10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 76.92 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 15.38 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %

*mash at 150 F

.5 oz Chinook (20 min)
.5 oz Warrior (20 min)
.5 oz Centennial (20 min)
.5 oz Armarillo (20 min)
1.00 oz Centennial (10 min)
1.0 oz Armarillo (10 min)
.5 oz Chinook (5 min)
1.0 oz Centennial (0 min)
1.0 oz Armarillo (0 min)
.5 oz Chinook (0 min)


All hops are pellets. The exact alpha acids are unknown, since I haven’t purchased them yet.

Yeast will be lan American Ale yeast like WLP001

I am not completely sold on the late hop addition, since I have never tried it. So, a recommended substitution would be beneficial.

Please provide feedback. My goal is a bright orange colored, super citrusy flavor, floral and citrus nose with a smooth bitterness that doesn’t linger in this drinkable IPA.

Looks like a decent attempt...

What I like about that IPA it's full of flavor with out having a lot of bitterness ...interested to here how it turns out


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I think that definitely looks like a good start - one thing I might do is degas a sample of the beer and take a hydro reading so you can get the FG - knowing that it's 6.5% abv you can deduce the OG and shoot for that.

Personally, I would move the warrior to the bittering and simplify the hop schedule. Most commercial breweries get the bulk of their flavor/aroma from whirlpool additions/hop stands so I might have a 15 minute addition and then a bigger addition at flame out.

No dry hop?

knowing the hop profile for Anti Hero is a combination of Armarillo, Warrior, Chinook and Centenial

Click to expand...

Source?

Funny, I was just looking into recipes for this too.
I did stumble across http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/first-ipa-piper-anti-hero-clone

The malt bill is quite similar and seems perfectly reasonable.

I would aim for a smaller amount of a clean bittering hop for your 60 minute addition, with heavy late additions. Something like
60: 0.5-0.75oz
10: 2oz
whirlpool: 2oz
dry hop: 2.5oz

Other than the 60 minute, I'd split the hop additions between Simcoe, Citra, and Centennial or Cascade.
That's what my taste buds are picking up anyway.

The dry hop was eliminated as a result of the Mr. Malty article. Seems the late hop additions contribute nicely and eliminates the need to add extra aroma by way of dry hopping. That being said, I have not eliminated the idea altogether. If I don't get the nose I want by the time I rack I can always throw a couple oz of centenial, chinook and armarillo.
According to beersmith, my bitterness is projected to be high by slightly under .2 of a point. I made warrior the first hop because I have read that it's bittering quality produces a smoother effect. I may eliminate the last .5 oz of chinook (at 0 min) in an attempt to hit my goal of 70.
This is completely experimental and I am relatively new to home brewing with about 8 beers under my belt... in a years time. This is my first clone attempt with my own recipe and hop schedule. I plan to adjust my lovibond to maybe 30 or 40 L as my color was a tad light too, according to beersmith.
I will flatten out an Anti hero to get a gravity reading as well to check my numbers.
Thanks for the ideas. Please provide input and further assistance. I am curious still if anyone has attempted the hop schedule according to the article in Mr. Malty.

parrish said:

Funny, I was just looking into recipes for this too.
I did stumble across http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/first-ipa-piper-anti-hero-clone

The malt bill is quite similar and seems perfectly reasonable.

I would aim for a smaller amount of a clean bittering hop for your 60 minute addition, with heavy late additions. Something like
60: 0.5-0.75oz
10: 2oz
whirlpool: 2oz
dry hop: 2.5oz

Other than the 60 minute, I'd split the hop additions between Simcoe, Citra, and Centennial or Cascade.
That's what my taste buds are picking up anyway.

Click to expand...

I was able to find the actual hops Revolution uses as well as the ibu, color, abv, etc on a website called "all about beer". Those hops u mentioned however, are just as pleasing.

If they're using Chinook, it's probably a very light touch. I usually taste Citra and one of the "Big C's" as the dominant hops, particularly when it's fresh. I'm guessing at Simcoe since I get a slight dank/piney aroma and flavor.

They definitely dry hop it as well. It's quite cloudy for the first couple weeks after canning and I think I remember hearing that they filter their beer before canning.

If you couldn't tell, it's my go-to IPA here in Chicago

I think your malt bill looks good. I did sub victory for the Vienna. After playing around with the hop schedule on beersmith, this is what I came up with. Hope it helps.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Anti-hero clone
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.50 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.50 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 8.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 72.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 76.9 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.8 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.8 %
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 5 18.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 6 20.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 10.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 5.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 12 1.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 11 1.1 IBUs
2 lbs Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 2 15.4 %
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 6.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Day Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 9.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 13 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 16.90 qt of water at 160.9 F 150.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 3 steps (5.09gal, 1.70gal, 1.70gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've gotten responses to an email about their pale ale. I can dig that up later if you want an idea of their hopping but one thing they did say was you'll always regret not dry hopping a hoppy beer so I'd add that back in.

mlakota - yes please do post it! It might help us get a better idea on their recipe formulation/hop schedule

Here's what they told me for Iron Fist Pale Ale:

warrior to bitter
centennial @10
cascade @whirlpool
dry hop with cascade amarillo and chinook

another person on here asked about eugene porter and got this:

Eugene is a robust porter with 2-row as a base malt, and castle belgian specialty malts munich, caramunich and special B. The key to the deep dark color and chocolate aroma and flavor is breiss dark choc malt.
original gravity = 18.5 plato
ibus = 28
abv = 6.8%
We use magnum for a bittering hop and a bit of centennial at the end of boil.

1968 for yeast.

At the very least I think this helps show there's probably centennial in it since they use it in a couple other beers, I'd guess amarillo, and chinook also with either warrior or magnum to bitter making up the 4 varieties they say it is on their website. Maybe look at belgian malts for caramel and such (maybe trying to pick too much out of what we have).

Wow everyone this is good stuff. Mlakota, thanks for this valuable information. I had attempted to contact them via email about a year ago for insight on a SMaSH they brew but I received no response. I figured it was like a trade secrete or something and they just didn't share. Maybe I had a bad email address?
I am fairly confident that the four hops I listed are the ones used as I found the list in the artical I listed above. I want to stress that I have not eliminated the idea to dry hop but the more I get from you all, the more I believe a few oz's of dry hops won't hurt. I think if I do dry hop I will use centenial and Amarillo as I have no idea how the chinook would taste. Hawg seems to agree with that notion too. Anyone else?
I played with brew smith as well, using the same grains and hops as I listed before but adjusted the Chrystal to a higher lovibond. I also increased the base malt and hops amounts and the numbers for the estimated og, color, and ibu's are right on. I added just a touch more base to make up for some poor efficiency with my stuff. Of course, the corrected model is at work and I am at home. I will post up the final grain bill and hop schedule after hitting the brew shop. I am hoping to use WLP051. I have never used it before but hope the LBS has it because of the extra body it produces (leaves behind).
Hey Hawg, thanks for the updated grain bill. My LBS never has victory. I will see what they have and incorporate if I can. I would cut back on my pale malt to compinsate.
Anyone have any other ideas?

Does your LHBS have biscuit? It's pretty interchangeable with victory. I just think it will add a little better mouth feel than the Vienna. Plus using Vienna will give you a light SRM. But that's one reason why we homebrew right? The ability to experiment.
Also IMO I would just cut out either the chinook or warrior at the 45 minute mark and just use 1oz of one of the two. It's such a small amount I don't think it will add much as far as flavor goes, just bitterness. I'd probably keep the chinook if it was me.


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ejf063 said:

I think if I do dry hop I will use centenial and Amarillo as I have no idea how the chinook would taste. Hawg seems to agree with that notion too. Anyone else?

Click to expand...

I got another six pack last night and I can pick up the Chinook flavor if I'm looking for it. I'm always a bit cautious with Chinook in a dry hop -- I've had a couple ultra-catty batches of it nearly spoil a beer. Either way, a little goes a long way with it in a late addition, so bear that in mind. Citra can also easily dominate a dry hop, so maybe something like: 1 oz Citra, 1 oz Amarillo, 1 oz Centennial (or 0.5 oz Chinook).

ejf063 said:

I am hoping to use WLP051. I have never used it before but hope the LBS has it because of the extra body it produces (leaves behind).

Click to expand...

I almost always prefer White Labs over Wyeast, but WLP051 is definitely the exception. Wyeast 1272 tends to be much more reliable for me. If you do go for WLP051, I'd keep the fermentation temperature as close to 67-68° as possible.

My fermentation always happens in the basement where the temp is always below 70. I have read the same thing: ferment the WLP051 at lower temps.....
I just hope id doesn’t produce a beer that is too thick, or medicinal... I want the fruitiness to come through in both the hops and the yeast, while the ultra high late hop additions produce a bitterness which is smooth.
If I dry hop, I will use the centennial and Amarillo..... I think I will shy away from Chinook....

here is the final recipe. The numbers are pretty close, within tenths of a percent on IBU and gravity. I think everything will work out with gravity due to my yeast.

everything is purchased. All the Alpha Acids from the hops were adjusted on the beersmith program. As expected, specialty hops were in short supply. The base recipe is a loose copy of Two Hearted. Whatchu'all think??

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Anti Hearted
Brewer: Ted
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.25 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.50 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated Color: 8.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 70.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 80.0
2 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 13.3
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.3
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 90L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.3
0.55 oz Warrior [16.70 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 15.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo [8.80 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 7.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [9.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 8.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.60 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 9.8 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 9
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 8.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 9.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.60 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 3.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.80 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0 Hop13 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 15 8.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) [3 Yeast 16 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 18.75 qt of water at 165.7 F 150.0 F 75 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 4.86 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks good to me. Gotta start somewhere. Can't wait to see how this turns out.


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So brew day went good. The og was low but I blame that on a less than vigorous boil. My ending volume was just over 6 gallons. Color is perfect.
This is my first time fermenting in an ale pale as my carboy is fermenting a red ale. There wasn't a ton of head space when I transferred from kettle to the pail so I used a blow off tube. Pitched my 4 cup started of WLP051 and it took off. I was of the impression this is a slow yeast. The temp is 65 degrees. Nope. Its so hungry that the conversion process seemed to have clogged my blow off. A quick cleaning and sanatizing then reinserting of the tube caused yet another clog. If I pushed the lid down it seemed to help force the air through, like a burp. I got some venting through the lid too and I am losing volume as a result. Of course this makes me worry but then I figured whatever force needed to blow the lid off would clear the clog.
Anyway the clog and the lid vent issues concern me. I am hopeful that nothing bad got in there. I will post an update when I rack in ten days or so.

ejf063 said:

Anyway the clog and the lid vent issues concern me. I am hopeful that nothing bad got in there. I will post an update when I rack in ten days or so.

Click to expand...

The CO2 being thrown off will keep anything nasty from getting in. Shouldn't have any reason to worry.

mlakota said:

The CO2 being thrown off will keep anything nasty from getting in. Shouldn't have any reason to worry.

Click to expand...

I figured as much, but I still worry..... RDWHAHB.... I know i know. Sheesh... I'm only human.

I stole your recipe! I brewed it up today, but I adapted it for a BIAB. I hit 73% efficiency and a OG of 1.071. Smells amazing. I used a yeast starter of wyeast 1272 that I grew to 200 billion cells before pitching. My fermentation (bubblers started going crazy) about 5 hours after pitching. Pretty exited! How's yours coming along?


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Ejf063...how'd your clone attempt turn out?


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Has Ejf063 disappeared? I feel bad because I came back here to give him kudos for his stellar recipe! I just had me a glass and it taste amazing only 1 week after bottling! It taste and smells exactly like anti hero.

I had only one change from Ejf063 recipe. My LHBS didn't have 90L, so I used 80L instead (same amount).

This one's a keeper!

Just brewed this last weekend and going to keg it friday hopefully. I will report back soon.

Anyone else have any progress with this brew?

No new update since my last. It's been bottled a few weeks now and is delicious as ever. It's startling clear too


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Do you mind posting your final recipe? How close is it to the original?

Not sure if anyone saw this article or not: http://allaboutbeer.com/article/anti-hero-ipa/

This ale features a blend of four hop varieties (Warrior, Chinook, Centennial and Amarillo) that creates a crisp bitterness and imparts massive floral and citrus aromas.

ABV: 6.5

ABW: 5.2

COLOR: 8

BITTERNESS: 70

ORIGINAL GRAVITY: 1068

Not sure if anyone saw this article or not: http://allaboutbeer.com/article/anti-hero-ipa/

This ale features a blend of four hop varieties (Warrior, Chinook, Centennial and Amarillo) that creates a crisp bitterness and imparts massive floral and citrus aromas.

ABV: 6.5

ABW: 5.2

COLOR: 8

BITTERNESS: 70

ORIGINAL GRAVITY: 1068

Anyone else have any success on this? Has anyone tweaked the recipe?

I'm looking to do something in this regard after Christmas. Truth be told, I'm in love with their double IPA Unsessionable and was looking to do something inspired by that. I'm planning to brew a few IPAs and session IPAs to try to get the hop and malt bills right before I go for a full on batch.

Besides Anti-hero they have a few other "Hero" beers (Citra hero, Galaxy Hero, Local Hero, etc). They seem to generally be similar beers, with the specialty ones tending to usually be around 75-80IBU and about 7.5% ABV, so a little heavier. I've found the most information on Citra hero, which still isn't a lot. The one thing I did pick up was that Citra Hero is fermented with a English ale yeast. http://revbrew.com/beer/detail/citra-hero I'm thinking I'll give WLP007 a try (or Wyeast equiv) on some of them. Several other highly regarded IPAs are brewed with this sort of yeast. I've mostly seen recommendations to keep the temperatures on the lower end of things to keep the ester production somewhat restrained.

Has anyone tried this recipe lately? How long is the mash in time? I've read 60 and read 75 minutes - want to make sure we have it correct. It's on our pending brew list

And, the recipe that I see online doesn't show a dry hop, is dry hopping recommended?

So I guess I did disappear, at least all my notes did. I brewed it and it didn't last long. But I didn't get it close to the actual beer, at least I didn't think it was. --- The other thing, I did de-gas Anti hero and found the terminal gravity was 1.018. I am going to give this another shot, but I will move most of the late hops to a hop stand. Yes, dry hop this and use Centennial and Amarillo. And I may loose the crystal malt altogether.
I have a new system now, doing 10 gallon batches. When I re-try this I will also use different yeasts. I want to use 1968 on at least one of them.

I emailed the brewery and they confirmed that they do not dry hop Anti-Hero, which surprises me. Keep me posted - we might be trying this one soon as well, even though I think our next like 4 recipes are all IPAs...