Altbier recipe, please critique

any experienced altbier brewers out there care to critique? I'm planning a single decoction for this.



Dusseldorf Altbier
Düsseldorf Altbier
Type: All Grain Date: 12/22/2011
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer: Lenny
Boil Size: 8.46 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Pot and Cooler (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
End of Boil Volume 6.76 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal Est Mash Efficiency 94.5 %
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 1 60.7 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 30.4 %
8.0 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.1 %
4.0 oz Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.5 %
2.1 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.3 %
1.50 oz Hallertauer [4.30 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 6 24.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.30 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 8.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 1.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dusseldorf Alt Yeast (White Labs #WLP036) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 34.0 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 12.8 SRM

and i know it says 1 package but i'm actually using a slurry along the lines of whatever mr. malty tells me to

I'd cut the carafaIII and add some chocolate malt for the color and a bit more flavor. Aromatic malt is great in an Alt, too.

Otherwise looks good. I always use Pilsner for my alt base malt but your grain bill looks nice.

I'd have to disagree with the use of chocolate. I made what was supposed to be an altbier last year with 2.5% chocolate malt, and while tasty, had a certain kind of roastiness to it that didn't really say "altbier" to me. Godd, just not reminiscent of the alts I've drank in Dusseldorf.
That being said, maybe if you used a smaller amount of chocolate, around 1.5%, you might get better results.

I've used pils malt for base, German melanoidin malt, German med crystal, special B, German wheat malt, spalt for bittering, and hallertauer for flavor and finishing. But NOTHING tastes like the alt's in Dusseldorf. Was lucky enough to damn near taste 'em all this past October on a beer trip. Oye. Fuchschen may be my fav....



7 1/2 lb. German pilsner or Kolsch/Ale malt
2 lbs. Munich malt
1 lb. German medium crystal malt
1/4 lb. Special "B" malt
1/4 lb. wheat malt
1/4 lb. German Melanoidin malt
2 oz. Spalt hops (bittering)
1/2 oz. Hallertauer hops (flavoring)
1/2 oz. Hallertauer hops (finishing)

Fuchschen Alt uses pilsner, caramunich, and carafa (II ?). And a bit of acidulated malt. They told me it's 90% pilsner, so after that you can figure out the other ones.

And Tradition for hops.




More info here. A few paragraphs down I discuss the ingredients / process. I've made my own, but a bit different. I passed on the carafa and used chocolate wheat. It was a big hit at a company party. Here is the recipe I used. I guarantee it will not disappoint. But I'll back off about 25% on the choc wheat next time... too dark.



Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
20.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
15 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 88.2 %
1 lbs Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.9 %
8.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.9 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Wheat Malt (413.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.9 %
50.00 g Magnum [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 28.8 IBUs
50.00 g Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 10.6 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.3 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.4 %
Bitterness: 39.5 IBUs Calories: 168.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 14.2 SRM

alt is an ale? pardon my dumbness

Sheldon

Alt is the German word for OLD. It's a style of ale from the city of Dusseldorf in Germany, near Cologne.

It's a beautiful style of beer. Lots of ways to make alts, as you can see. If you ever have a chance to visit Germany put Dusseldorf on the agenda! Beautiful city an great beers!

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Should I maybe replace some of the Vienna malt with german pils? Maybe 2 lbs?

and passedpawn I watched your videos when you first posted them. I was very jealous! They were actually what made me want to brew an alt so bad!

Never put chocolate malt in an Alt. I have no idea why anyone would suggest that but don't do it.

As for you recipe, go with a pilsner malt base. Your recipe is on the right track though.

Good luck!

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

ntempleton said:

Never put chocolate malt in an Alt. I have no idea why anyone would suggest that but don't do it.

As for you recipe, go with a pilsner malt base. Your recipe is on the right track though.

Click to expand...

Carafa is a chocolate malt, and certainly belongs in there. Chocolate malt is just as good as Carafa but might lend a bitterness because it is not dehusked, but then wheat is huskless so there you go, use chocolate wheat! It wont be authentic if it has any chocolate malt flavor, so don't overdo it. Too much and it will be too dark.

Mine is the dark one, the light one is Fuchschen Alt. Regardless of the color, I can tell you that they were very close in taste. The darker one had a bit more roast from the chocolate, which covered up the bright sweet "copper" caramel flavor of the caramunich in the Fuchshen.

Head to Passedpawn. He seems to be the authority on Alt around here....

Alt goes on the to brew list for me, thanks for the info.

Sheldon said:

alt is an ale? pardon my dumbness

Click to expand...

It's an ale fermented at cold temps. I got my yeast from the brewery, so I can't tell you what it is. I fermented at 50F. I think they are much more like lagers than ales, but apparently the yeast is an ale yeast (at least according to the BJCP).

If you can get an authentic Altbier yeast, great. Otherwise, I'd probably use a lager yeast to make sure it fermented clean. If you can't ferment cold, don't bother, this beer needs to be crisp. And, the trick is to leave it slightly on the bitter side.

there goes the plan. I can not control fermenting temps, so I guess I will stick to awesome ales.

passedpawn said:

If you can get an authentic Altbier yeast, great. Otherwise, I'd probably use a lager yeast to make sure it fermented clean. If you can't ferment cold, don't bother, this beer needs to be crisp. And, the trick is to leave it slightly on the bitter side.

Click to expand...

so then what are you thoughts on the white labs dusseldorf alt strain?

I've read that the White Labs Dusseldorf is a Uerige yeast strain, and I've used it before with excellent results.

I just kegged my version of Kaiser's Alt, and used an s-05 cake,fermented in the low 60's and the sample I tasted was very clean.
I'm not sure how authentic it is, but I will say it is VERY good! Nice malt flavor, with a bit of hop. I've never had a real alt to compare it to, but it is quite lager-ish.
I did crash it in my garage at 39 deg for 2 weeks, maybe this helped keep it clean.
I also don't have controlled temps, but pitching on a cake no doubt overpitched and kept some of the esters at bay due to the yeast not needing to reproduce much.

brewed that badboy up last night. hit an OG of 1.054. did a single decoction which I boiled for 20 minutes, scorched the pot a little. Came out darker than expected, I was shooting for a reddish color, it looks more brown to me. She's already pretty active in there, fermenting around 60 according to the stick on thermometer.

and I ended up going with this for my recipe:
# %/IBU
4 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 1 42.6 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 26.7 %
2 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 21.3 %
8.0 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.3 %
4.0 oz Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.7 %
2.1 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.4 %
1.50 oz Hallertauer [4.30 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 7 23.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.30 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 8.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 1.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dusseldorf Alt Yeast (White Labs #WLP036) [35.49 ml] Yeast 10 -