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Inodoro_Pereyra · 04-27-2011, 02:34 AM

Sorry about the possibly stupid question, but, what's channeling?

Navin · 04-27-2011, 05:56 AM

In traditional brewing methods with batch sparge or fly sparging if you let the mash compact down then the sparge water will find paths of least resistance through the grains,creating channels. These are undesirable in the sparge since the water won't be rinsing all of the grains just those along the channels. This is why when fly sparging people try to maintain the grain bed floating slightly.

I wouldn't have thought that channelling would be much of a problem with the Braumeister as the water to grist ratio is high and the mash is relatively liquid compared with the traditional methods.

Inodoro_Pereyra · 04-27-2011, 06:42 AM

Thank you, now I get it.

So creating a whirlpool minimizes channelling...What if you were to raise the malt pipe?

Navin · 04-27-2011, 10:40 AM

Raising the malt pipe during the mash wouldn't help at all.

The malt pipe must be securely fixed to the floor of the boiler during the mash, this is achieved by screwing down the retaining bolt which ensures that the rubber seal on the base of the malt pipe makes good contact with the floor of the unit.
The Braumeister works by drawing in wort from the area outside of the malt pipe and then pumping it back up through the malt pipe (and the malt) so that it overflows back to the outside and so on. This constant recirculation ensures that the grains are washed with water/wort at the set temperature for the duration of the mash.
If you break the seal e.g. by lifting the malt pipe you will interrupt the flow through the malt pipe and grains, as the fluid will take the path of least resistance back to the pump inlet - which would not be not through the malt pipe.

**rico567** · 04-27-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navin

Raising the malt pipe during the mash wouldn't help at all.

The malt pipe must be securely fixed to the floor of the boiler during the mash, this is achieved by screwing down the retaining bolt which ensures that the rubber seal on the base of the malt pipe makes good contact with the floor of the unit.
The Braumeister works by drawing in wort from the area outside of the malt pipe and then pumping it back up through the malt pipe (and the malt) so that it overflows back to the outside and so on. This constant recirculation ensures that the grains are washed with water/wort at the set temperature for the duration of the mash.
If you break the seal e.g. by lifting the malt pipe you will interrupt the flow through the malt pipe and grains, as the fluid will take the path of least resistance back to the pump inlet - which would not be not through the malt pipe.

It took me a while (and watching the Braumeister video, and the excellent one made by "Yambor44") to fully understand this. The grains are washed from below while in the process of mashing, and it's a very gentle, continuous process. I suspect channeling isn't an issue. OTOH, some Braumeister user (I think the fellow from Norway) reported that he can boost his efficiency incrementally by stopping the process and stirring the mash several times, which would be an indicator that perhaps channeling IS going on. To my way of thinking, though, unless such stirring really achieved dramatic results -which it doesn't appear to- it defeats one of the main virtues of the Braumeister, which is its ability to automatically combine all processes from heating the strike water through draining the chilled wort into the fermenter.

Inodoro_Pereyra · 04-27-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navin

Raising the malt pipe during the mash wouldn't help at all.

The malt pipe must be securely fixed to the floor of the boiler during the mash, this is achieved by screwing down the retaining bolt which ensures that the rubber seal on the base of the malt pipe makes good contact with the floor of the unit.
The Braumeister works by drawing in wort from the area outside of the malt pipe and then pumping it back up through the malt pipe (and the malt) so that it overflows back to the outside and so on. This constant recirculation ensures that the grains are washed with water/wort at the set temperature for the duration of the mash.
If you break the seal e.g. by lifting the malt pipe you will interrupt the flow through the malt pipe and grains, as the fluid will take the path of least resistance back to the pump inlet - which would not be not through the malt pipe.

Yeah, I understood that part from Yambor's video. What I was thinking was to maybe raise the lower filter (the "floor" of the pipe) inside the pipe. I don't know how difficult this may be, or if it's even possible, but if it is, it seems like a fairly easy way to gain some room...

Navin · 04-27-2011, 01:14 PM

Inodoro Pereyra, sorry I misunderstood your question,

the lower filter is not fixed so it could easily raise up a bit.

I'm not sure if vortexing would help much during the mash, but it would certainly help during cooling with the pump on - I might give it a go, something to try at the weekend.

wyzazz · 04-27-2011, 02:20 PM

Just a quick thought, maybe use one of those 3M Floor Buffer pads instead of the SS Mesh for a filter on the False Bottoms? They used to be sold as Mash Pads.

**Yambor44** · 04-27-2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico567

It took me a while (and watching the Braumeister video, and the excellent one made by "Yambor44") to fully understand this. The grains are washed from below while in the process of mashing, and it's a very gentle, continuous process. I suspect channeling isn't an issue. OTOH, some Braumeister user (I think the fellow from Norway) reported that he can boost his efficiency incrementally by stopping the process and stirring the mash several times, which would be an indicator that perhaps channeling IS going on. To my way of thinking, though, unless such stirring really achieved dramatic results -which it doesn't appear to- it defeats one of the main virtues of the Braumeister, which is its ability to automatically combine all processes from heating the strike water through draining the chilled wort into the fermenter.

Yes the guy on the podcast from Norway mentioned doing this every 15 minutes I think. I think it was more of a compaction problem than a channeling issue. Maybe they are the same??

I love all of this brain storming, but I would strongly encourage everyone that already has one or has one coming to use it as it is intended (with the exception of the dip tube) for a few brews before you start wanting to change it. I like the idea of stirring the mash say after half way thru but I will not know if it makes a difference if I don't have a few brews to compare it to. Make small changes and only one at a time if possible.

All that being said, I see the need for the screen filter on the bottom right away vs. the cloth one. Even though Mr. Speidel said it wasn't as important, a lot of my grain fell back thru as you saw in the video. So I guess that will be my next "small" and only change (for now).

Also, I think mine has 2 pump holes that push the wort up into the bottom of the malt pipe just fyi.

wyzazz · 04-27-2011, 03:05 PM

The 50L has 2 pumps vs the 20L that has only the one pump, I believe the pumps used on both of those are the same model, you just need more Umphhh to push through more grain.

The 200L version has a completely different plumbing setup under the vessel.