Has anyone tried using one of these?

Trying to be thrifty or cheap depending on how you read this, I was looking for a conical fermentor to do slightly larger then 5 gallon batches of wine or home brew. I cam across this site that had these food grade transfer tanks (15- 80 gallons i think).
Not being 100% sure i contacted them and they said they were more then safe for home brewing. just cusious to know if anyone else had ever seen or used them and any input on them would be great....

this is the link to the site
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...USPlastic&category_name=20726&product_id=3863

this is a link to a pdf for the 15 gallon with specs
http://www.usplastic.com/pdfdatafiles/drawings/8551drawing.pdf

after a couple of emails back and forth they said the tanks are vented through a small hole located in the top of the tank, which i would think that it could be easliy modified to accept a plug and airlock.

after looking at the prices of stainless steel, and even the food grade plastic brewing vessels this seems to be a better option finacially to me.....any input would be greatly appreciated

anthony

Wow, those seem pretty sweet and to get a conical fermenter at that price would be outstanding! The concern I have would be the part that says "...designed for containment of liquids of up to 1.7 specific gravity." Sounds to me like a homebrewer has gone down this route with them before......

How thick are the walls?
What is the Oxygen permeability of them?

They definately look like you could make them work. Easily do 12 gallon batches, two kegs and a case of bottles.

Thanks for the link, there are a bunch of cool things I've been looking for on that site.

D*Bo said:

How thick are the walls?
What is the Oxygen permeability of them?

They definately look like you could make them work. Easily do 12 gallon batches, two kegs and a case of bottles.

Thanks for the link, there are a bunch of cool things I've been looking for on that site.

Click to expand...

both great questions D*Bo, 2 i didnt ask when i emailed them but i will email them tonight to see. the other thing was the fittings, obviously there is no fittings on the tank and only the 60 i belive it was comes with male threads. but from the sounds of it i dont think i am the only one who may have inquired about using them for brewing. as she was pretty fast to respond that they will be sufficent for brewing
ill keep you posted on the ?'s I also ordered there printed catalog yesterday

anthony

Craig5_12 said:

Wow, those seem pretty sweet and to get a conical fermenter at that price would be outstanding! The concern I have would be the part that says "...designed for containment of liquids of up to 1.7 specific gravity." Sounds to me like a homebrewer has gone down this route with them before......

Click to expand...

the way I am understanding it Craig is as long as the liquid contained in the vessel has a SG of 1.70 and lower there is no problem...

i was considering a V-vessel till i saw these.....perhaps it is just what the dr. ordered

anthony

They look nice and a conical is a nice thing but how will you control the temperature on it? That has always been the thing that has stopped me from seriously considering one.

I would be concerned about the oxygen permeability of the MDPE (medium density polyethylene) that it is made from.

johnsma22 said:

I would be concerned about the oxygen permeability of the MDPE (medium density polyethylene) that it is made from.

Click to expand...

I managed to dig up the oxygen permiability specs for low, medium and high density polyethylene. The results are in cc(O2)/m2/day/atm, 1mm of thickness:

Low density = 215

Medium Density = 117

High Density = 58


My opinion is that these most certainly can be used for ales with no problem. The question then becomes, "Can they be used effectively for lagering?". Well, I look at it this way. If these can be used successfully for ales, give a lager batch a try. In a worst case scenario, you'll be out the cost of one batch of beer and you'll just move on and continue with ales only.


Here is another opinion I found on the internet relative to these induction tanks:

http://oldcrankybrewers.com/blog/2006/05/15/the-touch-the-feel-of-plastics/

Those are awesome..!!!! I hope they can work... I'd order a few of them and line them up in the garage...

Jester

Preliator said:

the way I am understanding it Craig is as long as the liquid contained in the vessel has a SG of 1.70 and lower there is no problem...
anthony

Click to expand...

LOL, dummy me....I was thinking, I brew beer that has an SG greater than "1070" these won't work.....Oh yeah 1.070...... doh!

I managed to dig up the oxygen permiability specs for low, medium and high density polyethylene. The results are in cc(O2)/m2/day/atm, 1mm of thickness:

Low density = 215

Medium Density = 117

High Density = 58

Click to expand...

Notice the units on the figures. cc/day/m^2/atm. The per atm means they are expecting a pressure difference across the walls. No pressure difference, no O2 penetration.

I think its time someone did an experiment. Take a plastic vessel such as one of these. Fill it with CO2. Leave it sit for a month. After a month, open it and insert a candle and see if there is enough O2 for it to burn.

I think the O2 permability of vessels is way over hyped.

And the other thing is, look at how thick the walls are on those vessels compared to a Better Bottle.

It would be interesting to know has anyone actually had beer suffer from plastic.
When it comes down to it we know theory doesn't always match reality.
I prefer steel and glass over plastic for several reasons but I ain't scared of plastic if I have nothing else.
How about if the brewing network got a dozen or so emails suggesting an experiment to see if they can see a difference in using plastic for an extended secondary compared to glass and steel. They could do a daylight/dark test as well.

brewman ! said:

Notice the units on the figures. cc/day/m^2/atm. The per atm means they are expecting a pressure difference across the walls. No pressure difference, no O2 penetration.

Click to expand...

You sure that atm isn't the pressure where you are brewing? Like if you were near the dead sea vs. in Boulder, CO?

The thickness iand the ability to connect a drain valve are my main concern.

I'd definately give it a try.

I ferment all my beers in a 15 gallon extract containers from the LHBS, I used to use a glass carboy and I haven't noticed a difference. Those extract containers are actually on the US Plastics website too!

I can't wait to see if someone tries these out... the price is great...!!!

I just checked shipping and it wasnt that bad... 16.00 to ship to virginia...

There is someone on this board who regularly uses these, he has at least three of them. I'll search and see if I can remember who it was.

I was wondering the same thing, this seems like a cheaper alternative to the SS conicals.


Here is the link, go to post #13:https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14410&page=2

Check out the link in his signature and then click on "brewery" to see these in action.

I don't know about the funnel-thingy, but I've dealt with US Plastics A LOT over the years. I did research on live fish so we had some really strange/custom "plumbing" and plastics needs.

Generally they have very knowledgeable Tech support to answer your endless questions about the physical and chemical (and electrical when relevant) nature of their products. Good prices and quick and EZ shipping and returns too. Can't go wrong with USP.

Flyin' Lion said:

Here is the link, go to post #13:https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14410&page=2

Check out the link in his signature and then click on "brewery" to see these in action.

Click to expand...

It looks like this person doesnt post here all that often... I am going to send him a message and see how he hooked up the two drains on the unit.... Thats the main concern I have, is how to get all the valves hooked up and working right...

I have looked at these time and time over.

I was planning on getting one (maybe more) of these once I have the room.

I am still in search for an equally cheap (respective to the lesser size) 6.5 gal conical. I have seen a few options so far but nothing concrete.

I am also devising some plans for some 1-3 gal mini conicals. Cheap, easy, and great for test batches. Once I get some more solid plans layed out I'm planning on posting them up here. (I only wish the wait time would go down along with the smaller batch size :cross: )

I have been emailing the guy listed earlier that has been using these as fermenters. He seems to have had no problem with them at all. He also sent me some more pics showing the rotating racking arm he hooked up and the valve assembly at the bottom. I will post them soon.... these are looking better and better...

I just took delivery of a 30 gallon conical from www.nationaltankoutlet.com. Delivered, it was $154.

Comes with a sturdy metal stand....Bottom outlet is a plastic fitting with 2-inch NPT female. I was able to fashion a dump valve using a plastic ball valve (I work in a Do-It-Best Hardware store) for about $6.

Racking arm will be copper and brass fittings, about $9. My arm will not rotate, however.

I need to fashion my 15 gallon keg into a boiling kettle before I can try this bad fellow.

Finish and feel of the tank seem to be very nice.

I'm geeked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

This looks great but i'm stuck on how the h*ll youd be able to make a 15 gallon wort. what are you using to boil in?

i found this thread through a search, because i have been looking for a conical. was looking at the v-vessel, until i read this and saw the products from us plastics. looks like one guy that i see so far actually uses them. anyone else using these? would a ball valve be difficult to adapt to the bottom? it looks like a nice option for me. i was looking at stainless, but it is too much dough.

nchomebrew said:

i found this thread through a search, because i have been looking for a conical. was looking at the v-vessel, until i read this and saw the products from us plastics. looks like one guy that i see so far actually uses them. anyone else using these? would a ball valve be difficult to adapt to the bottom? it looks like a nice option for me. i was looking at stainless, but it is too much dough.

Click to expand...

I'm interested in this also. More info is what I need.

Jim Karr said:

I just took delivery of a 30 gallon conical from www.nationaltankoutlet.com. Delivered, it was $154.

Comes with a sturdy metal stand....Bottom outlet is a plastic fitting with 2-inch NPT female. I was able to fashion a dump valve using a plastic ball valve (I work in a Do-It-Best Hardware store) for about $6.

Racking arm will be copper and brass fittings, about $9. My arm will not rotate, however.

I need to fashion my 15 gallon keg into a boiling kettle before I can try this bad fellow.

Finish and feel of the tank seem to be very nice.

I'm geeked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Click to expand...

Wow how about some pics and DIB part numbers etc!

hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like it has a nice 60 deg cone, but also looks like there is a good sized flat area at the bottom that might shelf yeast and/or hop sludge. like it might not all clean out real well even if adapted to a ball valve.http://www.plastic-mart.com/class.php?item=2800

Any updates on pictures or part numbers, I would be interested in saving a couple hundred dollars and having a nifty conical

http://support.netsync.net/~drector/ferment2.htm

found a page...

OK guys, here are the items to add to a National Tank Outlet 30 gallon fermenter.

The outlet on the bottom for dumping the trub has a female 2-inch NPT opening. Into this, you will want to screw a PVC adaptor which has a 1-inch NPT opening. The Do-It Best number for this adaptor is 471518.

Into the 1 inch opening, screw DIB part 414115, which will give you a 3/4 inch opening, again NPT thread. This will accept a 3/4 inch close nipple, PVC (Schedule 80), DIB part number 439476.

Onto this nipple, you can thread a PVC ball valve with 3/4 inch female NPT threads on each end. Part number is 434876.

Total price of these four parts should not exceed $15.

I still have not fabricated a racking arm. I'm actually looking at the racking valve Northern Brewer is offering for a Better Bottle. It's about $20.