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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > 2 Stage Immersion Chiller with Pump ?
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:34 PM   #1
cheffriz
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Default 2 Stage Immersion Chiller with Pump ?

I am considering setting up a 2 Stage Immersion Chiller with a pump,

However i do not know what kind of pump i would need

Currently i am using a single immersion chiller and that seems to be very wasteful of water.

I saw mention somewhere of using a pond pump but i can not find that info now

pictures and or model numbers would be helpful.

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Old 03-28-2011, 02:01 PM   #2
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Warm ground water right around the corner, and I am thinking about something similar myself.

Look at this one

http://www.amazon.com/Sunterra-13701...1316824&sr=8-1

The pump I linked is actually an upgrade, and Amazon lists a similar, less powerful pump for about half the price. However, the $15 version seems to have a max height of 4', which might not work on my set up.

Last year, I used a prechiller in line to my immersion chiller. It was a lot of copper, and it did use a ton of water. My plan this year is to use the immersion chiller and ground water to get the wort temp as low as possible (80F?) and then disconnect the hoses, and run a pump like this in a bucket of icewater in a closed loop until I am down to pitching temps (46F for lagers/62F for Ales)

The prechiller -> immersion chiller works, but it spends a lot more water then immersion chiller -> closed loop with pond pump.

Joe

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Old 03-28-2011, 02:51 PM   #3
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I was looking at this model from Harbour Freight.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-hp-30...oat-93819.html

These models went on sale last year, but didn't pick one up, but I just got a 30% off HFT coupon...

sketched out a plumbing diagram. trying to figure out what extra connections I may need. looking at 2 3way garden hose connectors with cut off valves to go from an open tap water system, then when temp gets low enough, close system and use the ice water.

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Old 03-28-2011, 08:53 PM   #4
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Go to wallyworld, look in the fishing section, I got a discounted attwood bilge pump (used to drain water from your boat) for $11, add some wiring and an inline fuse then connect it to your car's battery. Connect the 'in' hose to the pump, drop the pump in a 5gallon bottling bucket with 2 10# bags of ice and a few gallons of water in the bucket. Clamp your chiller's 'out' hose to the inside top of the bucket so that the heated water runs over the ice before dropping to the bottom of the bucket and recirculating into your bilge pump. When the ice melts, open the bottling bucket's spigot to drain off the warm water and change the ice when needed. I can cool 10 gallons of wort (without wasting who knows how much water) in around 20 mins (after using the swirl technique to settle the solids).

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Old 03-28-2011, 11:48 PM   #5
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I was looking for something that would be an inline pump for a closed loop system.

First Copper coil in in Prechill ice bath > Pump > Second copper coil in wort > back to first coil.

I am thinking that the closed loop will help conserve the ice rather than dumping hot water directly on the ice.

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Old 03-29-2011, 03:09 AM   #6
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With an immersion chiller the temperature differential is what gives you cooling effectiveness, the closer those temps are the longer it'll take to cool. To maximize this, the IC with tap water first (200* wort vs. 50-60 degree water)...after 5-7 mins or so and the wort temp gets down (140-120? IDK) switch to the ice bath (140-120 vs. 40 degree water). Collect both or either for clean up later or use in the washing machine.

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Old 04-01-2011, 01:58 AM   #7
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I think i have found what i need.

Wayne PC2 115-Volt 340 GPH Portable Transfer Water Pump, Bronze



http://www.amazon.com/Wayne-PC2-115-...=2P93DMHX32ADQ

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Old 04-01-2011, 06:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheffriz View Post
I was looking for something that would be an inline pump for a closed loop system.

First Copper coil in in Prechill ice bath > Pump > Second copper coil in wort > back to first coil.

I am thinking that the closed loop will help conserve the ice rather than dumping hot water directly on the ice.
You seem to be ignoring a lot of valuable advice, as well as the laws of thermodynamics.

The only way the wort will cool down is to exchange heat by warming water, melting ice, etc. There is a fixed amount of heat that has to be removed from the wort. Slowing down that exchange by adding a barrier (ice loop material-copper?) to sinking the heat into the ice bath will not "conserve" ice.

It will only conserve ice in the sense that it will take much longer to drop the temp of the wort, so more heat will be lost to the ambient air through the kettle wall. For wort chilling purposes, an open ice bath will exchange heat much better, giving a colder input into the IC. The loop is still "closed", but the uses an "open" ice bath.

To give an example/hypothetical, one could "conserve" ice in a cooler by putting the ice inside a cooler that itself is inside a cooler with beer/food in it. The inner cooler would indeed conserve the ice, but the beer/food would not be cooled adequately.

The primary goal (for good beer) is to drop the wort temp as rapidly as possible. Using tap water for the initial cooling (to 120F or so), then a recirc'ing ice bath, is a good approach. When the wort is 200-150F, ice or tap water are ~ equally effective (for most systems). As the wort temp drops, the tap water becomes less efficient at removing heat, so more time/volume is needed to remove subsequent heat.

If both conserving water and good beer are equal priorities, a recirc'ing ice bath can be used for the entire process, but will use a large amount of ice.

Also, agitating the wort significantly increases the heat exchanged through the IC.
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwi View Post
You seem to be ignoring a lot of valuable advice, as well as the laws of thermodynamics.

The only way the wort will cool down is to exchange heat by warming water, melting ice, etc. There is a fixed amount of heat that has to be removed from the wort. Slowing down that exchange by adding a barrier (ice loop material-copper?) to sinking the heat into the ice bath will not "conserve" ice.

It will only conserve ice in the sense that it will take much longer to drop the temp of the wort, so more heat will be lost to the ambient air through the kettle wall. For wort chilling purposes, an open ice bath will exchange heat much better, giving a colder input into the IC. The loop is still "closed", but the uses an "open" ice bath.

To give an example/hypothetical, one could "conserve" ice in a cooler by putting the ice inside a cooler that itself is inside a cooler with beer/food in it. The inner cooler would indeed conserve the ice, but the beer/food would not be cooled adequately.

The primary goal (for good beer) is to drop the wort temp as rapidly as possible. Using tap water for the initial cooling (to 120F or so), then a recirc'ing ice bath, is a good approach. When the wort is 200-150F, ice or tap water are ~ equally effective (for most systems). As the wort temp drops, the tap water becomes less efficient at removing heat, so more time/volume is needed to remove subsequent heat.

If both conserving water and good beer are equal priorities, a recirc'ing ice bath can be used for the entire process, but will use a large amount of ice.

Also, agitating the wort significantly increases the heat exchanged through the IC.

Your Advice is well received.
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheffriz View Post
I think i have found what i need.

Wayne PC2 115-Volt 340 GPH Portable Transfer Water Pump, Bronze



http://www.amazon.com/Wayne-PC2-115-...=2P93DMHX32ADQ
I bought one of those to deal with the recent flooding here, and the impeller tore itself apart after about 15 minutes. I took it back the next day. No, I didn't run it dry. Yes, I lubricated it before using it.

Also, I don't think you want that high of a flow rate if your goal is to not waste water.

For my immersion chiller I just used a submersible fountain pump I found on Amazon that cost about $15 as I recall. I put a bunch of water in a bucket, then put the pump in there. The output of the chiller goes to another container to catch the runoff for gardening. Once the wort temp drops down below 100F or so I dump a bunch of ice in the bucket and stir like crazy, and the runoff goes back into the ice mixture to recirculate.
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