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Old 12-13-2008, 02:16 PM   #11
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How do thicker walls get you extra surface area? Given the same OD, thinner walls would actually translate to slightly more surface area on the inside.
Seems that way to me to FWIW.
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Old 12-13-2008, 03:22 PM   #12
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Pipes are measured by their ID. So same ID, bigger OD.

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Old 12-13-2008, 04:24 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by hammacks View Post
Pipes are measured by their ID. So same ID, bigger OD.
Copper tubing is sold by OD, with varying wall thickness.
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Old 12-13-2008, 05:02 PM   #14
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Yup OD on copper, but really, the difference we are talking here, is it even worth the effort to calculate transference rates for an IC?

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Old 12-13-2008, 05:30 PM   #15
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Yup OD on copper, but really, the difference we are talking here, is it even worth the effort to calculate transference rates for an IC?
Define "worth" for me! All in the name of scientific curiosity, good sir.

Exactly when did you go invisible?
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Old 12-13-2008, 05:52 PM   #16
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Define "worth" for me! All in the name of scientific curiosity, good sir.

Exactly when did you go invisible?
Definition of "worth" :- Math induced headache V. Exact knowledge of extremely minimal difference = Not "worth" the trouble

I went invisible about a week ago, but nobody noticed because I was, well....Invisible! Just a little FYI, I am not English invisible, I am French invisible, Pronounced ang-vees-ah-bluh......It's a music related thing, which I'm sure that someone with a user name like yours would fully understand.
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Old 12-13-2008, 09:40 PM   #17
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Yup OD on copper, but really, the difference we are talking here, is it even worth the effort to calculate transference rates for an IC?
Ah thanks for the correction guys. I could have sworn it was by ID.

As far as worth it: I'm sitting in class on the first day and the professor is mentioning all the things heat transfer knowledge is useful for. One of the things he says is brewing. Well it's been bothering me since. Also, copper is often called superior whenever someone asks for purchasing advise. Whatever the case may be, Brewers spending their cash should know if that's true or not eh?

So you guys pretty sure both SS and Cu are going to be the same OD? I'll take your word for it.
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:13 PM   #18
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For a given listed size, considered apples-to-apples (ID and ID), the walls in SS are going to be thinner. For the size of tubing we use in homebrewing, the few thousandths of an inch doesn't matter.

Having been through much the same class back in the day, the thickness of the metal walls doesn't matter much when you're talking about brewing applications. The five components of heat transfer (five different heat transfer coefficients / R-values) are wort-to-wall (driven by turbulence and thermal conductivity of wort), scale on the inside wall (which will have thermal conductivity one or two orders of magnitude *worse* than the tubing, the resistance of the tubing (orders of magnitude higher than the wort/water-to-wall, scale on the outside, and wall-to-water.

You can drive up heat transfer coefficients on the liquid sides a factor of 10 or so by getting into turbulent flow; that's why some coolers advertise having turbulizers inside. In theory a badly-scaled chiller will fail to transfer heat well; this is a known phenomenon inside industrial boilers, your water heater, and things like that...industrially, scale is dissolved with acid to ensure good heat transfer. Granted, the consequences of scale can be explosions, not a couple extra minutes spent chilling wort.

The only time that tubing material would be a factor would be in a condenser (because the heat transfer of a condensing vapor is one to two orders of magnitude higher than flowing liquid. If the heat transfer coefficients of the working fluids are very high, worry about the metal. If not, just keep your equipment clean and you'll be fine.

One reason to use copper is that it's easier to bend and solder...and still fairly resistant to corrosion. It's more expensive on a per-lb basis, and not as strong...that's why most modern industrial heat exchange equipment is stainless. When you're holding back 2000 psi, you need to worry a lot about tube thickness.

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Old 12-13-2008, 10:15 PM   #19
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I have no idea about ss, but copper is definitely measured OD. It's how we know what fittings to buy......So I'm guessing ss will be the same. ID is pretty much useless info when buying fittings


And yeah, I would get obsessed too if I had your teacher!!!

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Old 12-13-2008, 10:30 PM   #20
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Copper tubing is sold both by OD and ID. For some reason the refrigeration stuff goes by OD. Then it gets more confusing that rigid copper tube is rated by nominal ID (1/2" nominal is 5/8" OD).

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