Your plate chiller probably isn't as clean as you might think!

[stonebrewer]

I have a 60 plate chiller that I love using as it cools quickly and makes my brew day a little shorter. I have always meticulously (or so I thought) cleaned it. Every brew day, I clean the entire system with near boiling PBW for about an hour while I clean and get fermentation started, and before most brew days I do the same, especially if my equipment has been sitting a while. I always flush the system as well, take it apart, and then forward/back flush my PC in the sink. About every 4th or 5th brew day, I remove the connectors to my PC and cook it in the oven on the oven self cleaning setting for about an hour, then flush with PBW and hot water rinse.

Fast forward a bit, I noticed that there is ALWAYS a little bit of hop matter that is coming out of my PC. Reading here, people use lye (NAOH or KOH) to clean their PC. One person even claimed that after the second soaking, his was completely clean. That made me hit up Amazon for some food grade NAOH. Put on my rubber gloves and eye protection, as this is NASTY stuff to human eyes and skin, made up a 10% solution, and soaked my PC over night. Gobs of crap came out! The liquid was like tea or soy sauce. This was the trick, I thought, for having a sparkling clean PC. Well, I have soaked the PC in increasingly stronger solutions of NAOH and a) I still get hop matter after 10 treatments and b) the liquid is still coming out brownish black!!

Since I bought a few pounds of lye, I will continue this experiment for another week or so just to see if I can get my PC completely clean like new again, but I don't have high hopes.

That said, it is a hell of a lot cleaner than it was, but I am no longer under the impression it is as clean as my other equipment. I will continue to use it, because I have never detected off flavors from whatever has been stuck in there and it is a lot cleaner than it was. I recirculate through a bazooka tube on kettle output and a very fine stainless steel mesh on input, in the hopes of preventing hops from getting into my PC in the first place.

If anyone knows of a better way of cleaning a PC completely (PBW flushing, oven baking, and lye all seem to be inadequate), please post a reply! Cheers all!

 

[vince805]

I have a plate chiller and I have never baked it. I know there has to be tons of gunk in there. I have been thinking about baking it before I brew next but now I may have to pick up some naoh also.

Thanks for reminder and tips

 

[TheMadKing]

I use a plate chiller professionally for an industrial application and we clean ours by alternating acid and alkaline treatments the back flushing with water. Our plates are 304 stainless though, and the we used 16 moler nitric acid at about 10% concentration in DI water so it doesn't pit the plates.

 

[November]

I use lye, and I've never noticed additional muck after the first flush. I do have a filter before the PC so I may get less hop material in the PC to begin with.

 

[mattd2]

I would suggest making up a solution in your BK and circulating it through the PC. The mechanical action from the solution flowing through the PC will help clean/flush out the gunk. Normal industrial practice (dairy/brewery) is a CIP caustic concentration of around 2-5%. Heating it increases its effectiveness - I would stay under 140°F.

 

[passedpawn]

Blichmann warns against using lye as it might degrade the copper brazing used internally. I've done it myself, but I stopped when told.

When brewing, it gets flushed with boiling wort for 15 minutes before I turn the heat off and start chilling.

To clean, I run hot PBW through mine. It's been going strong for many years.

 

[JonM]

Blichmann warns against using lye as it might degrade the copper brazing used internally. I've done it myself, but I stopped when told.

When brewing, it gets flushed with boiling wort for 15 minutes before I turn the heat off and start chilling.

To clean, I run hot PBW through mine. It's been going strong for many years.

This is exactly what I do. And I do the hour at 400 in the oven once a year or once every six months or so.

 

[mattd2]

Blichmann warns against using lye as it might degrade the copper brazing used internally. I've done it myself, but I stopped when told...

http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance
According to Cole Parmer's info copper holds up against sodium hydroxide pretty well (solution under 20% and under 120°F)
But I agree that you should not use a high strength caustic to clean your plate chiller

 

[mikescooling]

I never understood baking it in the oven, isn't all the stuff now burned on. Are my dishes any cleaner if I bake them in the oven? Pressure cooking it underwater I could understand, but not baking it.

 

[mattd2]

I never understood baking it in the oven, isn't all the stuff now burned on. Are my dishes any cleaner if I bake them in the oven? Pressure cooking it underwater I could understand, but not baking it.

I think the theory is to try and turn all the organic matter to ash. But as you said I have pots that a black on the bottom/sides from burnt on organic matter that won't come off without a good amount of scrubbing

 

[augiedoggy]

What about keeping the nasty solids out of the chiller in the first place by filtering the wort going in it? It seems to works well for me?

 

[augiedoggy]

I think the theory is to try and turn all the organic matter to ash. But as you said I have pots that a black on the bottom/sides from burnt on organic matter that won't come off without a good amount of scrubbing

I think it dries it up and shrinks it causing it to break free as it shrinks and come out with a flush after baking ?

 

[nealm]

Is there any reason why you couldn't run it through the Cleaning cycle of a self cleaning oven, then flush the ash out?

 

[Nate]

What about keeping the nasty solids out of the chiller in the first place by filtering the wort going in it? It seems to works well for me?

What filter are you using?

I'd like to filter but we've always just immediately flushed with water and then soaked in StarSan before each use. I doubt it's "clean" but we've yet to have any issues.

 

[TrickyDick]

I sold mine. Use the convoluted copper counter flow now.
I baked mine once, but not at clean cycle, which would be needed to convert to ash if at all possible. 400° will probably be insufficient to convert to ash but would certainly kill any bacteria or living organisms for sure. You would have sterile wort. Might get off flavor from whatever debris was contained. Now I am curious about running lye through my chiller!! I keep some food grade for making pretzels.

Thanks for the OP observations!

TD

 

[mauer_62]

This is exactly why i chose a counterflow chiller over a plate chiller. Its just too much work to clean properly. Anytime I upgrade my equipment it is to make my brewday easier, not make more work for myself.

 

[hunter_le five]

I've had my plate chiller for three years, and it's as clean as the day I got it.



Mostly because I haven't used it yet.

 

[kombat]

When brewing, it gets flushed with boiling wort for 15 minutes before I turn the heat off and start chilling.

Do you use anything to contain your hops?

I used to use one of those cylindrical stainless-steel screens to contain my hops, but I found it was crippling my hop utilization. I switched to throwing my hop pellets directly into the boil, and it's increased the bitterness and hoppiness of my brews. I added a whirlpool arm and a side pickup tube, so that after boiling, I can whirlpool and get the hop gunk and trub to collect in the middle in a "cone," then collect the wort from the clear area around the rim of the kettle (i.e., with the pickup tube).

This has worked great and given me very clear wort going into the fermenter, but it also means I can no longer recirculate boiling wort through my plate chiller to sanitize before beginning chilling, because at that point, the hop particles are still evenly mixed throughout the wort, and I'm scared of clogging/gumming up my plate chiller.

I haven't found a solution to this problem yet, so I'm just wondering what you do, passedpawn.

 

[passedpawn]

I use a hanging hop sack / hop spider thing. I just went into Beersmith and adjust utilization number by 10% or so (can't remember where it's at). Anyway, I think my beers come out great. I don't mind throwing an extra ounce in there.

I've had my plate chiller clog several times when I did back-to-back 10g batches. I found out that it was getting clogged by grain, not pellet residue. So now, just before I begin to circulate wort through my plate chiller, I first pump it back into that hop sack for a couple of minutes to attempt to catch any grain that made it into my BK. Been working great.

In case you're wondering, I have a Jaybird false bottom in my keggle mashtun.

I think in the future I'm just going to pump my wort from the mashtun through the hop sack when transferring to the BK. That might be easier. Just though of that!

Do you use anything to contain your hops?

I used to use one of those cylindrical stainless-steel screens to contain my hops, but I found it was crippling my hop utilization. I switched to throwing my hop pellets directly into the boil, and it's increased the bitterness and hoppiness of my brews. I added a whirlpool arm and a side pickup tube, so that after boiling, I can whirlpool and get the hop gunk and trub to collect in the middle in a "cone," then collect the wort from the clear area around the rim of the kettle (i.e., with the pickup tube).

This has worked great and given me very clear wort going into the fermenter, but it also means I can no longer recirculate boiling wort through my plate chiller to sanitize before beginning chilling, because at that point, the hop particles are still evenly mixed throughout the wort, and I'm scared of clogging/gumming up my plate chiller.

I haven't found a solution to this problem yet, so I'm just wondering what you do, passedpawn.

 

[augiedoggy]

What filter are you using?

I'd like to filter but we've always just immediately flushed with water and then soaked in StarSan before each use. I doubt it's "clean" but we've yet to have any issues.

Nothing crazy, I use the larger 6" x 14" hop spider along with a 30" or so long stainless braided hose I cut from a dishwasher supply line from home depot... I have this attached to my diptube and it encircles the whole bottom corner of my boil kettle...

I recirculate my mash so the wort was clear going into the boil kettle as well.

I Usually get no noticable trub at all in my conicals when dumping dead yeast.

 

[augiedoggy]

I think in the future I'm just going to pump my wort from the mashtun through the hop sack when transferring to the BK. That might be easier. Just though of that!

You will likely find it plugs solid in seconds... Thats what I found at least...


I pull my hop spider up to drain most of the liquid and then back down into my kettle during the boil multiple times and I find this allows good transfer of the hop oils out of the basket and exchanges it with fresh wort to be infused with the hops.. YMMV

 

[passedpawn]

You will likely find it plugs solid in seconds... Thats what I found at least...


I pull my hop spider up to drain most of the liquid and then back down into my kettle during the boil multiple times and I find this allows good transfer of the hop oils out of the basket and exchanges it with fresh wort to be infused with the hops.. YMMV

From the MASHTUN? After a short vorlauf, should be pretty clear except for some occasionally grain that slips through.

 

[Homercidal]

From the MASHTUN? After a short vorlauf, should be pretty clear except for some occasionally grain that slips through.

QFT. IF you Vorlauf, you can count on the break material coming from the mash tun to be extremely small. I have not found a mesh that captures it.

Anything else, like hop material. will be nearly non-existent.

Now, going out of the BK is a whole 'nother story!

In any case, I don't think I'm going to "upgrade" to a PC over my CFC mostly due to the clogging potential and residue. I already know my CFC is not terribly clean on the inside, even after rinsing well after each use. A hot rinse while running a long brush through each end reveals some dark residue.

My "upgrade" will be a dual stage IC with recirculation port that I can easily clean with a brush after each use. According to numbers I've seen online it will still be much faster than the CFC I have, and less hassle.

 

[Duke145]

From the MASHTUN? After a short vorlauf, should be pretty clear except for some occasionally grain that slips through.

I thought the same thing but on my last batch I set up my hose to recirc through the large bag on my DIY hop spider, during this operation my wife needed assistance with our blind pug, I was gone just a few minutes and when I had returned the mesh had become clogged with debris causing the bag to expand, it looked like a balloon and then my spider failed, as I tried to recover the spider the hose clamp gave way and the entire mess went into the kettle. In the picture below you can see how the PVC bent. Net time I will come up with a different method of recirculating,I may wash out the bag or hook up a clean one.

I think I will name this beer "Blind Pug Bitter"

I use a Hope Rocket to filter out debris so my PC has been OK but after back flushing I always get a surprising amount of material out of it, this last time I noticed the flow was greatly restricted and I got about 3/4 cup of whole hop material out of it, I doubt I got it all. I may try the caustic solution before my next batch.

 

[vince805]

In the picture below you can see how the PVC bent. Net time I will come up with a different method of recirculating,I may wash out the bag or hook up a clean one.

Use this instead of the pvc:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CCMZ18/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[augiedoggy]

From the MASHTUN? After a short vorlauf, should be pretty clear except for some occasionally grain that slips through.

Sorry I misread....I think as mentioned the proteins and particles from the mashtun the particles will be mostly superfine ... I bet a stainless coffee filter (or paper) for that matter would catch most of these proteins and your hop basket would catch anything larger than the super fine stuff... A lot of factors could impact this though such as grainbill and crush.

 

[stonebrewer]

I filter everywhere I can. Out of the mash tun, I use the same filter as in augiedoggy's picture a few posts back. I actually have two of them and use them to trap proteins, husks, hops, etc when I am filling the boil kettle and recirculating during cooling. I generally get up to a tablespoon of husk out of the MT, even after a vorlauf, so I think it helps a bit. I have a bazooka on the outlet of the BK, which I might consider replacing, however I don't want to over-restrict flow there, so need to think on that a bit. I recirculate through one of the two spiders I have, the other usually with hops in it. I will often need to take the one out and rinse it as they tend to clog with protein solids...

I used to use a lot of hop flowers, but now generally use mostly pellets and put them in the spider. That is why I thought it was odd that there was that much cone still in the PC. I still use some cone, and plop them into the boil vice into the spider. Guessing the pump is pulling some material through the bazooka into the PC where it gets trapped.

Will try the advice of recirculating the heated NAOH solution vice soaking overnight to see if that cleans out the old pipes. Will also look at acid treatment as well...I have 85% Phosphoric Acid that I use for adjusting mash PH...will that work with the PC? <EDIT> I just looked at that Cole Palmer website and it doesn't look like Phosphoric and Copper play nice together...will stick with recirculating and see what happens...</EDIT>

Thanks for all the replies! Cheers...

 

[Rivenin]

This is my chiller... not to come in here and show it off. However, just showing people that this type of chiller because it's a counterflow, but completely cleanable.

it's from Jaded brewing. kind of best of both worlds... now if only there was a plate chiller we could take apart on a homebrew budget

 

[passedpawn]

I thought the same thing but on my last batch I set up my hose to recirc through the large bag on my DIY hop spider, during this operation my wife needed assistance with our blind pug, I was gone just a few minutes and when I had returned the mesh had become clogged with debris causing the bag to expand, it looked like a balloon and then my spider failed, as I tried to recover the spider the hose clamp gave way and the entire mess went into the kettle. In the picture below you can see how the PVC bent. Net time I will come up with a different method of recirculating,I may wash out the bag or hook up a clean one.

I think I will name this beer "Blind Pug Bitter"

I use a Hope Rocket to filter out debris so my PC has been OK but after back flushing I always get a surprising amount of material out of it, this last time I noticed the flow was greatly restricted and I got about 3/4 cup of whole hop material out of it, I doubt I got it all. I may try the caustic solution before my next batch.

Just push a copper pipe through the whole thing. That's what I did (I did it the same you did originally, but then found that it's a LOT easier to use and store if the metal arm can just be slid out).

 

[stonebrewer]

So I brewed yesterday, a huge hoppy monster DIPA. Used cones in the whirlpool, about 12 oz. Smells like heaven should! I added a new piece of kit to my BK, one of BobbyM's SpinCycles. Worked great...however it dislodged my bazooka and I got stuck about halfway through cooling. It was a cold night, so I got it to pitching temps with a little snow and brewin' magic. Anyhow, gotta replace the bazooka with something else. PC got filled with cone and spent a couple of hours cleaning today. I circulated with NAOH solution for about an hour at 140F, pushed 5 gallons of clean water through, then sterilized with near boiling water for 30 minutes. Still bits of hop gunk coming out, but to be fair I put a lot in when the bazooka came off, so will have to revisit to see if the lye really did its job or not.

Noticed something else you might want to spend time cleaning (who really wants to clean?). Had to remake a hose to accommodate the spincycle so I disassembled a shorter hose to snag its QDs. Quite a bit of black gunk at the end of my silicon where I screw on the QD! Looking over my hose collection, seemed to be several that really need to be disassembled and cleaned. One more thing to add to the to do list. Cheers!