Will Double Crush Improve Efficiency?

[ultravista]

I mash in a fine mesh bag (voile), as such, don't worry about stuck sparges and I've been wondering if I could improve my extraction efficiency by double crushing the mashing grains.

Who here double crushes? What has it done for your efficiency? Typically, what can I epect as an improvement, in points?

 

[COLObrewer]

It's possible, however I don't BIAB, not sure how people get a good mash in a bag anyways. I do alot of mixing of my mash, I would never get the dough balls out if I had to worry about a bag. There must be a trick to it.

 

[hypergolic]

I have not done a BIAB yet but from the videos I have watched they leave the bag open and clipped over the sides of the pot. This allows them to stir the mash as much as is needed.

It's possible, however I don't BIAB, not sure how people get a good mash in a bag anyways. I do alot of mixing of my mash, I would never get the dough balls out if I had to worry about a bag. There must be a trick to it.

 

[brycelarson]

Basically the finer the crush the more accessible and extractable the sugars. If you have no concern about stuck sparges then you can mill as finely as you want. There is a diminishing return on super fine milling - but yes, in general, milling the grain finer will give you higher efficiency.

What efficiency are you currently getting?

 

[WoodlandBrew]

If you are in the high 70s or above crush is probably not going to improve it much. Maybe 5% at the most. There are down sides to a fine crush even if you are doing BIAB. Double crush means more husk particles which aren't exactly tasty. You also may have more trub which could lower the amount of beer you get in the end. However, the only way to know is to try.

I BIAB and do a single crush and get around 80%.

 

[jammin]

I mash in a fine mesh bag (voile), as such, don't worry about stuck sparges and I've been wondering if I could improve my extraction efficiency by double crushing the mashing grains.

Who here double crushes? What has it done for your efficiency? Typically, what can I epect as an improvement, in points?

Is your mill not adjustable? I would suggest tightening your gap before double crushing.

 

[TopherM]

I have a Rebel Mill, do BIAB, always double crush at the standard gap, and get a pretty consistent 78% efficiency on my system for 5-5.5 gallon batches. A single crush at a finer crush would work fine for BIAB as well. I've seen peeps literally crush down to almost flour with BIAB without any real negatives.

The finer/double crush may lead to a bit more husk particles that turn into trub in the fermenter, but it is fairly minimal, and certainly doesn't lead to any off flavors, you just need to be consistent with all of these types of variables you can control and plan accordingly on your starting water volumes. I lose around 0.25 gallons to trub on a typical grain/hops bill, which I account for in my BeerSmith equipment profile.

 

[jammin]

The finer/double crush may lead to a bit more husk particles that turn into trub in the fermenter, but it is fairly minimal, and certainly doesn't lead to any off flavors

If you transferring husk to the boil, I would have to think that would lead to astringency.

If your husks are suffering greatly from a finer crush, conditioning your malt may well be worth your time.

 

[ultravista]

I use a paint mixer at the beginning of the mash. Not too crazy, no vortex. But hit it hard enough to mix the crap out of it and zero doughballs.

 

[ultravista]

I lose around 0.25 gallons to trub on a typical grain/hops bill, which I account for in my BeerSmith equipment profile.

Are you loosing this in the kettle, fermenter, or mash tun?

 

[TopherM]

Fermenter. I BIAB, and everything from the mash tun/kettle goes into my primary, and I rarely secondary, so all I lose is about 0.25 gallons that I don't rack between primary and the keg for a typical 5-5.5 gallon batch.

I use whirfloc in the boil, am very careful when I rack with an autosiphon, allow ample cold crash time in the keg to clear chill haze, and get 95% perfect clear beer after the first draw.

Good enough for me for minimal effort!

 

[ultravista]

Sounds like an excellent plan. I don't use a fining agent and my beer has been pretty darned clear so far.

 

[Vendrixfly]

Dough balls in full-volume BIAB are rarely a problem unless the grain bill is huge. The reason is because the water/grain ratio is so thin that there is always enough water to help break up the bits. When you're mashing 15lbs of grain into nearly 7.5g of water it's a lot soupier and easier to work with

 

[william_shakes_beer]

To the OP: in order to get good effeciency you need a good crush. When I started AG I double milled my grains at the LHBS. However, lately that has been unnecessary as apparetly the mill has been adjusted to a narrower gap. I biab, and yes you clip the bag to the edges of the kettle, so there is no difference between stirring a MLT vs a BIAB. You stir the kettle. The bag is merely a different way of separating the grains from the wort after the mash.

 

[ultravista]

Mr. Shakesbeer - have you run into any issues with tannins or astringency from too fine of a crush?

 

[daksin]

I double crush my grains at the HBS, and do a hyrbrid BIAB (with single batch sparge). The grain is not conditioned so there is a fair amount of husk damage but nothing outrageous. I must say my water is extremely hard and I do no adjustments, so my mash pH is extremely high (probably), and I squeeze the hell out of my bag. Even with all those factors working against me, I've never had an even slightly tannic batch.

My efficiency went up a little less than 5% when I started double crushing, from around 75% to around 80% consistently with moderate grain bills. I get a little more with low gravity beers and a little less with higher gravity beers. If you were fly sparging, I don't think you'd see any increase in efficiency because I think that the increase we see is coming from lautering efficiency improving, and fly sparging is going to really make that a moot point if you're doing it correctly.