Why is my Mead so dry?

[billsea]

I have made four batches of mead so far. The first three were not so good because I hadn't learned about yeast nutrient and degassing, yeast type etc. Mostly they were too dry and hot. So for my last batch I wanted to make a sweeter mead.

I used 2.6# of honey for a gallon batch with an OG = 1.110. I also used a total of 1t of yeast nutrient staggered over 4 days, and degassed regularly. I used 1 pkg of US-05 yeast rehydrated because I thought that the fermentation would stop early and give me a sweeter mead.

The fermentation took some time. At day 30 it was 1.018 and at day 60 it was 0.998. abv - 14.4%. Certainly not the sweet mead I was looking for. What do you think happened? US-05 should have stopped long before that. Could there have been some wild yeast that caused it to go so low? Should I use some campden for the next batch? Should I start with a higher OG next time to get a sweeter mead?

I have been brewing beer for several years and I think my sanitation is pretty good.

 

[bernardsmith]

Why should US-05 stopped while there was unfermented sugar in the carboy? Sure if the SG was way, way beyond the tolerance for alcohol of that strain of yeast then OK the yeast could have croaked because of alcohol poisoning but an SG of 1.110 is 14%. That's not chopped liver but it's not really too high for even an ale yeast. And for all intents and purposes every last molecule of sugar in honey is fermentable.
So what can you do? Well, you can back sweeten the mead. To back sweeten you want to be pretty confident that you have removed all the yeast cells. You can do that by allowing the mead to age a few months and then cold stabilizing the mead. As a brewer you know that will help force the yeast to drop out of suspension. After cold stabilization you then rack the mead off the lees. I would repeat this two or three times. You can then add K-meta and K-sorbate. Any viable yeast cells still in suspension will be unable to reproduce and will be inhibited from fermenting any added sugar.
Now you are free to add more honey or any other sweetener you prefer (from table sugar to agave or maple syrup or what you want)...

Last point - You ask about using a higher starting gravity. Just as yeast have a limited tolerance for alcohol they have a limited ability to transport liquid through their cell walls when the liquid is too dense (too high an SG). The better approach in mead making is to step feed the yeast: so you might start with an SG of say , 1.110 and then when the yeast have fermented about half of the sugar you might add another 20- 25 points and when they have chomped through all of this add another 20 points... (actually, I would suggest adding 10-15 points because you really cannot predict how tolerant your batch of yeast is and if you step feed in increments of say, 10 points you have set the limit on how sweet the mead will be but of course, you can always increase the sweetness by adding more sugar once you know that the yeast have died of sugar poisoning...

 

[landsknechte]

The thing is, 8% ABV is measured with the all grain worts beers are made from. There are probably different sugars that won't/can't ferment out in grains as opposed to honey.

From what I understand, beers stop fermenting at, for example, 1.008 or 1.012 and so the idea of different unfermentable sugars makes sense. Beers have some residual sweetness, some styles more than others.

 

[Maylar]

The fermentation took some time. At day 30 it was 1.018 and at day 60 it was 0.998. abv - 14.4%. Certainly not the sweet mead I was looking for. What do you think happened? US-05 should have stopped long before that. Could there have been some wild yeast that caused it to go so low?

You should be proud. You managed your ferment perfectly and pushed an ale yeast to 14%. Well done. You should have a nice clean mead.

Let it clear and rack it for aging. Stabilize with sulfite and sorbate and back sweeten to your desired level with the same honey. After a couple months you should have a nice mead.

 

[BeerSmith]

To get a big sweet mead without backsweetening you need a higher final gravity. More final gravity means more sweetness left. Plain sweet meads start around 1.020 final gravity but can be quite a bit higher if you are mixing in a lot of acidic fruits as you need sweetness to balance the fruit acidity. Also you need sweetness to handle the high alcohol levels we're working at here.

The only way to get a big final gravity is to feed the mead beyond its alcohol tolerance. I like working with Lalvin 71B Narbonne yeast as it handles high starting gravities well, but also has a predictable alcohol tolerance of around 14.9%.

So now if you have some idea of what you want your final gravity to be based on the desired sweetness level and tartness of the fruits you are working with you can work backwards to get your target OG based on a 14.9% alcohol content. For a large fruit melomel using berries and other tart fruits the OG number is typically big - often well over 1.140. If you add fruits in the secondary (which dilute the overall batch gravity) the original gravity in the primary number can get much much higher.

That's why you see insane recipes from guys like Curt Stock that have 20+ lbs of honey and 20+ lbs of fruit for a 5-6 gal finish volume. They are balancing high alcohol levels, but also the sweetness of the honey against the tart fruits they are using, and sometimes mixing in additional fruit in the secondary which dilutes the overall batch. Often very little water is used.

 

[billsea]

I had a couple of reasons why I thought the mead would be sweeter.

First I got the idea from and episode of Basic Brewing Video. January 20, 2014 if you want to watch it. They started at 1.129, used US-05 and ended at 1.050 and 10.8 abv. I followed their recipe and procedure except I did not heat the honey to 170F, and I rehydrated the yeast and they sprinkled it in the must.

Second, from the data sheet of US-05 the attenuation is 81%. If I did the math correctly that means that an OG of 1.110 should end at 1.020.

But, it did not turn out that way. I will try some step feeding on the next batch. For some reason I don't like the idea of backsweetening, but I probably should try it.

Thanks for the input.

 

[imasickboy]

Okay, so your problem is your starting gravity is not what you think it was.

It was obvious to me, because I make meads with 4 pounds per gallon, so they finish around ~14% and about 1.030.

Honey has approximately a pppg of 1.034-1.035. For your recipe, that makes a 1.091 starting gravity. No wonder the US-05 chewed through it all.

It's extremely difficult to get an accurate OG on mead, because the honey and water separate so easily. Especially when the honey is unheated.

 

[billsea]

Okay, so your problem is your starting gravity is not what you think it was.

It was obvious to me, because I make meads with 4 pounds per gallon, so they finish around ~14% and about 1.030.

What is your starting gravity with 4 pounds per gallon?

 

[imasickboy]

In theory, 1.138 is the OG for 4 pounds per gallon. That is what I assume based upon honey's predicted pppg. It is not measured with a hydrometer. You could pull 5 samples pre-fermentation, and if you stirred, mixed, whatever, between each one, each OG reading would be different.

Some things to think about:

There is no efficiency losses with honey. 100% of the potential sugars that go in, are there, and fermentable.

Measuring OG is difficult, if not impossible. But fortunately, honey is typically pretty consistent in the sugar content, and averages 34-35 pppg.

If near-exact numbers are important to you, measure your volumes, (weight and liquid), carefully, and apply the 34-35 pppg standard, and you'll come out as close as you'll ever get.

Mead isn't as exact as beer. It's more of a feel and a taste, (and a bit of knowledge), that gets you where you want to be. Grains and hops are predictable and easily measureable. Your several pounds of honey depend on how hundreds of bees chose to spend their lives.

 

[billsea]

OK, good info. I went ahead and racked off the lees into a new gallon jug and added some honey. I guess I will let it set and keep adding honey until it gets to where I like it.

Thanks all.

 

[honeycon]

In theory, 1.138 is the OG for 1 pound per gallon. That is what I assume based upon honey's predicted pppg. It is not measured with a hydrometer. You could pull 5 samples pre-fermentation, and if you stirred, mixed, whatever, between each one, each OG reading would be different.

Some things to think about:

There is no efficiency losses with honey. 100% of the potential sugars that go in, are there, and fermentable.

Measuring OG is difficult, if not impossible. But fortunately, honey is typically pretty consistent in the sugar content, and averages 34-35 pppg.

If near-exact numbers are important to you, measure your volumes, (weight and liquid), carefully, and apply the 34-35 pppg standard, and you'll come out as close as you'll ever get.

Mead isn't as exact as beer. It's more of a feel and a taste, (and a bit of knowledge), that gets you where you want to be. Grains and hops are predictable and easily measureable. Your several pounds of honey depend on how hundreds of bees chose to spend their lives.

Good info, particularly the gravity per pound, however my experience is somewhat different . Measuring OG is difficult when honey remains undissolved. But you can dissolve the honey and get accurate OG readings. I have not gotten different readings by measuring 5 different times. This is much easier in a bucket, at least mixing and dissolving the honey. Dumping everything into a carboy and trying to mix it up is problematic at best and you could easily get different readings.

 

[bernardsmith]

Brewers refer to attenuation rates of yeast, but when you ferment sucrose, fructose and glucose there are really no non fermentable sugars and every yeast has an attenuation rate of 100% . The only exceptions will be if a) the concentration of sugar is too high to permit the yeast to transport liquid through cell walls or b) the amount of alcohol is too high for the tolerance of the yeast.. But that has nothing to do with attenuation

 

[billsea]

Brewers refer to attenuation rates of yeast, but when you ferment sucrose, fructose and glucose there are really no non fermentable sugars and every yeast has an attenuation rate of 100% . The only exceptions will be if a) the concentration of sugar is too high to permit the yeast to transport liquid through cell walls or b) the amount of alcohol is too high for the tolerance of the yeast.. But that has nothing to do with attenuation

I did not know that about attenuation. I love this forum. So much to learn!