Where was Randy Moss?

[the_bird]

I wasn't aware that we had to judge his performance relative to the performance of his counterpart on the opposing team...

Long and the short of it is, if the roles were reversed and Moss had made the game-winning catch, then nobody'd be talking about his performance the rest of the game---and we'd be ragging on Plaxico right now.

Well, yeah. It's not really fair to rag on Moss without ragging on Plaxico at the same time. If you're saying that Moss is a bum, then, since Plaxico's game was, for all intents and purposes, IDENTICAL to Moss', then you have to say that Plaxico was a bum as well. Neither did anything of note for most of the game, both caught a late, potentially game-winning TD on a great individual play.

Arguing about the WRs in this game is pointless, though - it was won by the Giants on the defensive line. We never got Maroney on track, and Brady never had time to throw. Wouldn't have mattered WHO the wideouts were, could have been Jerry Rice in his prime and he wouldn't have done much better. You can't catch an uncatchable ball, and you can't catch a pass the QB doesn't have time to throw.

 

[mr x]

I'm looking at the point of view of the OP wondering why Moss wasn't on the Goat list. He didn't look any worse to me than his counterpart. That makes him a 'goat'?

 

[the_bird]

I don't agree with most of the "goats" list. Calling someone a "goat" implies that they did something really stupid, or just made a bad play. Jarvis couldn't pull Manning down. Tyree made a great catch over Harrison. Those weren't really instances of the Pats player making a BAD play, per se, but of the Giants player making a GREAT play. Give the G-men props for playing a helluva game, they earned this. The only real f*ck-up that I saw was going for it on 4th down, and I'm not sure you can pin the loss on that (50/50 at best that Gostkowski hits the FG). Hobbs getting beat for that TD hurt, but Plax is one of the best wideouts in the league (if he doesn't get beat, Manning might just throw that one up as a jump ball and Plax gets it anyway).

 

[shunoshi]

What's he supposed to do? I know it looks like it sometimes, but he DOESN'T have Go-Go-Gadget arms. All the passes in his direction that were catchable, he caught.

Yeah, there wasn't much he could do with Brady's passing performance to him. There weren't that many catchable balls thrown his way. I'm just a Vikes fan venting my hatred of Moss and knowing that at times (especially in some big games) he just doesn't try.

 

[Seabee John]

No disrespect to the Pats fans out there, but the only reason I watched any part of the game was to cheer against Moss. He was a punk thug when he was here in Minnesota, he'll be a punk thug where ever he goes. The only thing getting in the way of Randy Moss is his engorged ego. He's got great talent that is for sure. Maybe getting "almost there" this year will wise him up a bit. I'd love to see him perform like we know he can, but with the right attitude. BTW if he was playing for NY I would have been cheering for the Pats. (well almost... not really big on the Pats, but it would have been neat to see them have a perfect year)

 

[pjj2ba]

If memory serves, Moss had a completion across the middle and jumped up in the fetal position. That's where Falk and Welker earn their bread & butter.

IMO, Moss is always thinking about Moss.

Yup. I remember that catch and thinking to myself, "typical Moss". Rather than push it and try to make the extra effort, but also risk getting hit hard, he'll go to the ground.

Now early in the season, OK, you don't want to get hurt, but the Superbowl with everything on the line. Cmon.

 

[Fish]

Moss didn't loose the game - the Pats D lost the game. It was a great move by Manning but that should have been a sack. Thats what these guys get the big bucks for. It was a great move and a great moment but they should have held on.

 

[Soulive]

Moss didn't loose the game - the Pats D lost the game. It was a great move by Manning but that should have been a sack. Thats what these guys get the big bucks for. It was a great move and a great moment but they should have held on.

I think the offensive line is to blame much more than the defense...

 

[Evan!]

Ah, it never gets old...

[YOUTUBE]e5BWzoyzVbc[/YOUTUBE]

 

[shunoshi]

I think the offensive line is to blame much more than the defense...

Yep, Brady got lit up.

Ah, it never gets old...

Yeah, I'll say it again. Play of the game!

 

[Evan!]

I think the offensive line is to blame much more than the defense...

Word. 5 sacks. 18 knockdowns. That o-line looked like hell.

 

[olllllo]

Ah, it never gets old...

[youtube]e5BWzoyzVbc[/youtube]

Was anyone else reminded of Mark Bavaro on that play (SB XXII)?

 

[the_bird]

Yeah.... Bavaro.

If they had won, Kevin Faulk had a play earlier in the game that kinda reminded me of David Meggett, but alas...

As to the offensive line, we *did* lose one of our better linemen (Stephen Neal) fairly early on, but the Giants' D-line was just too good.

Who did win the MVP? Manning? Should have been the boys in the trenches.

 

[Soulive]

Who did win the MVP? Manning? Should have been the boys in the trenches.

I agree. Probably Tuck or Strahan IMO...

 

[ohiobrewtus]

I agree. Probably Tuck or Strahan IMO...

100% agree. QB's always get too much credit for victories. Without the play of their defense, the Giants don't win that game.

 

[Soulive]

100% agree. QB's always get too much credit for victories. Without the play of their defense, the Giants don't win that game.

Exactly. Its common sense when you look at the game. Brady is the better QB for sure, but when you're on your ass half the time you won't make any difference in the game. Other than the last drive where Eli somehow dodged the rush, he was allowed to get some good throws in. This game was defensive up and down and the NY defense was much more effective. I won't discredit the Giants' offensive line either...

 

[uglygoat]

i'm pretty sure manning got it. he did have two td drives in the fourth...

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

I'm looking at the point of view of the OP wondering why Moss wasn't on the Goat list. He didn't look any worse to me than his counterpart. That makes him a 'goat'?

I think he was the number one goat based on what we have seen that he can do, vs. what he did do in the game. We have all seen him make entire defensive secondaries look silly, falling down all around him, jumping way to soon, etc., and have seen countless times where he is simply taller and much faster than anyone else on the field and is just dominating. It is in games like yesterday where big time players step it up one more notch and make a difference in the outcome of games. He didn't do that yesterday, nor has he done that in the biggest games of his career in the past.

 

[the_bird]

I think he was the number one goat based on what we have seen that he can do, vs. what he did do in the game. We have all seen him make entire defensive secondaries look silly, falling down all around him, jumping way to soon, etc., and have seen countless times where he is simply taller and much faster than anyone else on the field and is just dominating. It is in games like yesterday where big time players step it up one more notch and make a difference in the outcome of games. He didn't do that yesterday, nor has he done that in the biggest games of his career in the past.

Sorry, that's a ridiculous argument. Judge him yesterday based on what happened yesterday, not what might have happened five years ago.

What was he SUPPOSED to do, besides this nebulous concept of "make a play"? The ball's not anywhere that he can catch it - so what's he supposed to do?

Should he have yelled at Brady to "Get me the damn football!"?

Should he have been blocking the Giant's defensive line so that Brady had time to throw the football?

Seriously? What's he supposed to do? Brady had a crappy game, plain and simple. If the ball's not catchable, how you gonna catch it?

 

[olllllo]

Sorry, that's a ridiculous argument. Judge him yesterday based on what happened yesterday, not what might have happened five years ago.

What was he SUPPOSED to do, besides this nebulous concept of "make a play"? The ball's not anywhere that he can catch it - so what's he supposed to do?

Should he have yelled at Brady to "Get me the damn football!"?

Should he have been blocking the Giant's defensive line so that Brady had time to throw the football?

Seriously? What's he supposed to do? Brady had a crappy game, plain and simple. If the ball's not catchable, how you gonna catch it?

I'm not so sure that you can make an argument for the Patriots re-signing the "run-of-the-mill" player you just described.

 

[the_bird]

Wide receiver's only as good as his quarterback, who's only as good as his offensive line. It's been that case for as long as they've been playing football.

FWIW, I don't expect Moss to re-sign - but that's got nothing to do with his performance in the Super Bowl. From day one, this has been a one-year rental. Someone - someone - will pay HUGE dollars for Moss, and the Pats will stand their ground.

 

[imasickboy]

Someone - someone - will pay HUGE dollars for Moss

Philadelphia might, unless the T.O. thing still has them hesitant.

 

[the_bird]

Here's a scenario that I don't think is terribly farfetched.

They let Moss walk, and trade for Chad Johnson (who Belichick has long been a fan of, and who wants out of Cinci). Not necessarily an improvement, but you get the one-year honeymoon out of Moss, then do it again with another potentially-dominant WR.

 

[imasickboy]

Moss will walk, IMO. NE won't likely pay him the big signing bonus he would pick up elsewhere. They haven't done it in the past, and I doubt they'll do it this time.

Chad Johnson is a reasonable idea.

 

[Dude]

Randy Moss "didn't show up" because the Giants defensive linemen were in Brady's grill all day. Props to them, and it shows that the Patriots offensive line was a little bit over-rated (something I've been worried about). They aren't all that big, and they've also tended to not do terribly well against speed rushers. Brady never had a chance to get the ball downfield except on a few occassions, and there were a couple of times that Brady got hit on deep passes just as he threw, so the ball didn't have quite enough mustard on it. There was one occassion I remember in particular when Moss had a couple guys beaten, but Brady wasn't able to get enough on it so he had to hold up and the defenders were able to recover. There was another pass in the end zone that was completely out of his reach.

So, blame the Giant's excellent defensive line for Moss' (and Brady's) general ineffectiveness. IMHO, they deserve all the credit for that win, they sure as hell earned it.

Bravo!

This is so good to hear. You hit the nail on the head--and you aren't whining. Very refreshing, I'll admit that.

 

[Flyin' Lion]

Bravo!

This is so good to hear. You hit the nail on the head--and you aren't whining. Very refreshing, I'll admit that.

For the record, Bird doesn't really whine about football (he rarely has a reason to, though).

I didn't expect the level of graciousness I saw after the Green Bay loss--that was refreshing.