Where I am and Where to go?

[Riverevir]

Hi all,

I've made a few posts showing my ignorance/stupidity/etc, but I'm now at the point where I've had a whopping 4 brew days since I decided to take this hobby (read: obsession) with beer head on in the early spring. My history is this:
1. Brew 2.5 gallon of "Goat Scrotum Ale" - extract and some grains with a "mini mash" with some cold brew coffee added. Learned the hard way what folks mean by the best beer is the last one from a batch when you're starting out... though I do have one more left that I'm hoping to save a little while longer. Drinkable, but generally mediocre.

*bought Northern's 3 kits for $20 each and an actual fermenter instead of the Mr. Beer kit fermenter*

2. Brew a 5 gallon "Dead Ringer" extract w/specialty grains batch. Follow instructions to a T and underbittered the heck out of it. I did a partial boil and ultimately there is very little in the way of IBUs (a whole post/thread from this was started by me). I learned thanks to folks here, and while it was a better tasting beer from the first one, it was sweet as expected and left some room to improve. I also screwed up after my dry hop by sealing too tight but there were no overcarbonation issues like I initially feared. Still, I hit my numbers and got a bigger pot to help me commit. It was $25 for a cheap aluminum pot that I hope to replace (more on this below).

3. Brew a 5 gallon "Bourbon Barrel Porter" extract w/specialty grains batch. Way more in the boil, and the samples from the hydrometer have been the best tasting so far. Ultimately I learned a bit about yeast from this one. The Danstar Windsor yeast that they recommend is awful touchy. If I were to recommend anything to someone who stumbles across this thread it would be to substitute a different yeast. The flavor it produced was good, but it crapped out and left me around 1.030. I repitched before I added the bourbon, but ultimately I am a bit frustrated as it appears to be a common issue with this kit. Either it needs a different yeast, better control of temps (I don't have much...) or it has unfermentable sugar.

3. Second go at "Dead Ringer" but with a twist. Williams Brewing had a good sale, so I went in on some Simcoe and Amarillo hops. since I used extra Centennial to dry hop the first Dead Ringer, I am doing late additions (15 min through dry hopping) with Simcoe and Amarillo this time. The first hydrometer reading yesterday was better, and happily not as sweet as the first go-round.

Where to go next? At this point, my equipment list is:
7.5 gallon aluminum pot
two 7 gallon fermonsters
a hop bag, scale, hydrometer, long spoon, blah blah blah.

It's the basics and I feel like I have gotten a good bit out of it. I have a better understanding of the process at this point and I'm still very interested in growing the hobby as I've had an absolute blast and made some drinkable beer.

I'm debating a few items, and would love comments/votes as to where to go next. As I have debated my next move at length, some opinions from those who have walked through it would help. I'm interested in all grain, which is where my existing pot and kitchen will hit its limit. My kitchen is not ideal for a brewing setup. As such I'm going to be going to the garage, basement, etc. The appeal of not investing in a very nice pot earlier is I have had my eye on the Brewer's Edge Mash and Boil, the Grainfather, and now thanks to Williams' newest addition... the Robobrew.

$300, $500, and $1000 (why go for grainfather without the connect?) are decent sized investments. I'm leaning towards the "cheaper options", and putting more money into one of two other places: DIY fermentation chambers (temp control!) or modify an exisitng minifridge/real fridge to a kegerator (draft beer/no bottles!). Given that I have approximately 4 cases of beer in two fermenters, I thought maybe I could do one of these while I wait to brew again...

I'd love to hear some thoughts as to where to invest next, and if you all wouldn't mind indulging in a comment or two as to "why", I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance, but I'm looking forward to some helpful responses that will inevitably lead to more dumb questions from yours truly!

 

[owmatooth]

if you're happy with the quality of you're beer, I'd go to a kegging system next. man I wouldn't make it in this hobby/lifestyle if I had to bottle carb.

if you're up for trying yet another brewing style, invest the $22 bucks in a wilserbrewer bag for your existing kettle and try biab with all grain. super cheap and great results.

lastly it's all about the fermentation temps. gotta find a way to keep it coolish for a couple of weeks.

just my 0.02

 

[SlitheryDee]

I went with the fermentation chamber first. My reasoning was that it would help me make better beer now when I'm bottling, and it'll still help me make better beer later when I'm kegging. I DO plan on kegging eventually, but I'd rather get my brewing/fermenting process where I want it to be first, then move on to more convenient modes of packaging/dispensing.

The second thing I did was to start BIABing, because after temperature control I felt like ingredient control was probably the most limiting factor in my brewing. BIAB is pretty simple. Now that I've done it, I don't want to do anything else. I've got 4 extract kits waiting for me and little motivation to brew any of them because all grain is so much more exciting to me. I need to go ahead and brew them anyway before they go stale or something.

 

[Riverevir]

I've gone as far as having one of wilsers bags in my cart and backing out. He has answered questions by pm and I'll likely buy one of his bags for my brew setup anyway- it just makes a ton of sense. The idea of BIAB is appealing, but ultimately my heating element is poor. In my view, the all in one machines are appealing as I think they are a similar concept. Since my heating element and my pot are both subpar, the step up since I know I want to stick with this thing is worth it to me.

Dee - did you do a fermentation chamber build in particular that you could point me to? They all seem somewhat similar, but any help pointing me in the right direction is appreciated!

 

[owmatooth]

i use the williams mash and boil electric unit, and still use the wilserbag with it. they're set up for all grain mash and boil, but the mash is much easier with a biab.

 

[Riverevir]

I've seen your video and it's reviews like yours that have convinced me it's a viable solution. The only fear I really have with the m&b is the people complaining/worrying about the temp swings. Things like that, given my lack of all grain knowledge, confuse me and make me wonder what all the fuss is about. Are those swings really impactful? Is it a driver in off flavors or just small lost efficiency?

As someone who would be brand new to all grain, should I really give a crap?

 

[SlitheryDee]

Dee - did you do a fermentation chamber build in particular that you could point me to? They all seem somewhat similar, but any help pointing me in the right direction is appreciated!

I sort of just made it up as I went along really. I did do a lot of reading of other's builds so I had the basic concept down, but I mostly just knew that I needed a fridge big enough for my largest fermenter and a temperature controller with a long enough probe wire to get into the interior of the fridge. If you go with a mini fridge, bet on having to cut away the door shelving before anything will fit in front of the compressor hump. I actually removed all the door insulation and lined the door with a flexible layer of foam and radiant barrier, but if I could do it again I think I would try to work with the existing insulation by just cutting away what I had to to get my fermenter in there. My solution works, but it's a bit less refined and long term than it could be.

My chamber is cooling only currently, but I did think ahead enough to get a 2 phase temperature controller so I can add a heater in the winter. Where I live I probably won't need heat for 8 months out of the year, so I'm not in a terrible hurry on that one.

My approach was pretty haphazard honestly, and you'd probably be more guaranteed a good result if you found someone else's build and replicated it exactly. The overall concept isn't difficult to grasp though. You just need a cooling device large enough, or that can be modified to be large enough, for your fermenter and a temperature controller that can turn it on and off the maintain whatever temps you need. Remembering that might help you take advantage of possible deals on random freezers and refrigerators rather than having to hunt down a specific model because that's what the guy whose build you're following used.

 

[kh54s10]

From what you have said it is a toss up. Fermentation temperature control should be at the top of the list. So if you can control temperatures well with a swamp cooler, kegging would be ok.

So my vote would be for either......

I went with the fermentation chamber first because rotating ice bottles became a pain...

As already stated you can try all grain BIAB with the equipment you already have.

If you are on the stove, you might want to go outside with a propane burner. You can do full boils in your 7.5 gallon pot, though you will have to start the boil very carefully to prevent boil overs.

 

[violinguy]

if you're up for trying yet another brewing style, invest the $22 bucks in a wilserbrewer bag for your existing kettle and try biab with all grain. super cheap and great results.

lastly it's all about the fermentation temps. gotta find a way to keep it coolish for a couple of weeks.

just my 0.02

This^

I'm on my 4th BIAB (brewing it later this week), and I love it. If it were me, I would do BIAB and get/build a temp controlled fermentation chamber. An old fridge on Craigslist can be had for under $100 (way under if you're lucky - I have not been yet).

I haven't got frustrated enough with my swamp cooler to buy that fridge yet. My next purchase will probably be a burner so I can brew on the back porch. The wifey doesn't love the beer smell when she gets home from work and we live in a very small house (less than 1500 square feet).

 

[mongoose33]

All you need for a fermentation chamber is a refrigerator, heat mat of some type, and a controller like an Inkbird 308. Fish on Craigslist for a couple weeks, you'll probably find one that suits you at a reasonable price.

I use either of these for my heating mat: Fermwrap or Heat Mat. The Fermwrap has a higher heat capacity, so it depends on what you're trying to maintain as temps. You can wrap something around the fermenter on the outside of the heatmat to help direct the heat inward if you want.

Below is a pic of my setup using, in this case, the Fermwrap. The refrigerator is plugged into the Inkbird controller, along w/ the Fermwrap, and they can maintain temps within 1 degree.

It is said by many that fermentation temp control is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, leaps forward a new brewer can make. I'd tend to agree.

You can also start kegging rather simply with the same refrigerator, a keg, a 5# CO2 bottle, a regulator, and a picnic tap. That's how I started--I kept the keg and tank in the fridge and just opened up the door to serve. As I became more informed on what to do, I eventually built a keezer and now the refrigerator is solely for fermentation control.

 

[SGTSparty]

I second Mongoose. I just have an old 1980's fridge that was replaced by a friend, an inkbird 308 and an iguana heating wire electrical taped to the inside of the fridge. Since i didn't pay for the fridge the whole set up cost me under 50 bucks. Plus 308's seem to go on sale constantly. kegging is AMAZING but 65 for tank, 60 for a regulator, 60 for a keg, plus lines and QD and a faucet... you get the idea. Its an awesome luxury but if you're not having any issues with bottling (i.e. oxidation, post fermentation infection or gushers) it probably wont improve your beer.

 

[Riverevir]

Thanks all - really appreciate the feedback.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I use a swamp cooler and bottle condition and once I started working at a brewery, and seeing how quick and easy kegging is, I can now say that I effing hate bottling. Kegerator all the way! And from what I have read, get one that is bigger than you need now, so you don't have to buy a bigger one when you need to expand in 6 months.

 

[mongoose33]

I use a swamp cooler and bottle condition and once I started working at a brewery, and seeing how quick and easy kegging is, I can now say that I effing hate bottling. Kegerator all the way! And from what I have read, get one that is bigger than you need now, so you don't have to buy a bigger one when you need to expand in 6 months.

I never did much bottling before i went to kegging, but even if you're kegging beer you can still bottle.

I just filled 19 bottles yesterday to kill off a couple kegs; took me less time than when I was doing it from a bottling bucket. I chill the Star-San I use to sanitize the bottles, that tends to chill them enough; I used a growler filler to fill the bottles.

Once I'm set up, I'm doing a bottle about once every 30-35 seconds, which is pretty good. I've also used the poor-man's bottle filler (plastic tube, stopper, and a little vinyl tubing attached to a picnic tap.

 

[Blazinlow86]

id say fermentation chamber first as that will improve your beer regardless of packaging. as others stated though if your happy enough at this point with your brew you could go keg route as that will make life alot easier which in turn makes brewing more fun. fermentation temp and pitching enough yeast in very well aerated wort are what made my brews stop tasting like "homebrew"