When To Stop Tinkering With Efficiency?

[Egs21eric]

Simple Question, At what point should I stop tinkering with my mash process and accept my efficiency for what it is?

I have ran 8 batches through a new all-grain DIY setup, each time I seem to have tinkered with my mash process slightly, For Example:

Pre Heat Mash Tun
Mash in 2 Degrees Warmer
Mash In 3 Degrees Warmer
Mash In 4 Degrees Warmer
Batch Sparge
Fly Sparge
Various Runoff Speed Changes (slowest speed was actually my worst efficiency)

If I stop where I am at, I am generally mid to high 60's for efficiency, so i guess the real question is should I just be happy (and probably have a more consistent product) or continue tinkering with my process in the kitchen (and Beersmith) until I get to my goal of 72-78%?

 

[fuelish]

Only you can answer that.....if you're OK with what ya get, roll with it...if not, tweak on

 

[chisena]

I'm typically get around 68-70% according to BeerSmith. For the most part, I stopped tinkering after about 1/2 dozen batches. I'm cool with it for now. Like Fuelish said, only you can answer that question. Enjoy!

 

[beergolf]

I am happy with my 70% efficiency. What matters most is getting consistent effifciency. If you can expect the same effifciency then you are good. If you get 60% one time and 80% the next, you never know what to expect.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

+1 consistency over efficiency any day.

 

[douglasbarbin]

As others have said, aim for consistency. Grain is cheap. I'd rather have lower but consistent, repeatable efficiency than have higher but unrepeatable efficiency. Saving a dollar or two in grain isn't worth losing control of your process and ending up with a different beer than you were trying to brew.

 

[Egs21eric]

Thanks Everyone!

I am going to make my last tinker on this next brew, shortening my braid to hopefully reduce a little channeling i have noticed around the edges of mash tun, then I will update my Beersmith profiles for what should be the last time!

 

[brewkinger]

Agree with the consistency.
But I would feel terrible if I didn't point out that your tinkering has not included any changes to the crush of your grains. THAT is where you are most likely to see a bump in efficiency. I assume that you do not have your own mill.
If you crush at LHBS, perhaps you could double mill and see if that helps.
Or save up and buy a mill.

 

[Egs21eric]

Agree with the consistency.
But I would feel terrible if I didn't point out that your tinkering has not included any changes to the crush of your grains. THAT is where you are most likely to see a bump in efficiency. I assume that you do not have your own mill.
If you crush at LHBS, perhaps you could double mill and see if that helps.
Or save up and buy a mill.

Correct, I have generally only milled my grain through the mill at my local Northern Brewer store. I can certainly try a second crush, has anyone experienced a stuck sparge because of the finer grain?

 

[Clonefan94]

I'm with the others here, just accept where you are at and roll with it. Consistency is the key.

Are you doing your own crush? I found a huge bump in efficiency once I started crushing my own grains. And quite honestly, getting a consistent crush is as big of a deal as anything else. Seemed my LHBS crusher was always slightly different, I'm assuming because it got so much use.

I'm a big fan of getting your own mill. It was an important part of getting consistent numbers in my process.

 

[Homercidal]

I don't see why most people can't easily get to 70% or higher with the common setups.

If you haven't tried a finer crush, give it a go. It's THE number one way to increase efficiency (unless you have a real problem with your system)

That said, I too believe in consistency over efficiency at a certain point. If you have your own mill you can set a preferred gap and use it for every brew. You really can't be sure if the mill at the store is going to be the same from one day to the next. In that case, if your efficiency is below 70% I'd mill twice and see what happens. You may want to have a bit of extract on hand to save a brew if something ever happened to the gap setting on the store's mill...

 

[LandoLincoln]

Thanks Everyone!

I am going to make my last tinker on this next brew, shortening my braid to hopefully reduce a little channeling i have noticed around the edges of mash tun, then I will update my Beersmith profiles for what should be the last time!

Braids are awful for a number of reasons and I wish that the first person that ever used them hadn't.

Upgrade to a false bottom or manifold when you can.

 

[Egs21eric]

Braids are awful for a number of reasons and I wish that the first person that ever used them hadn't.

Upgrade to a false bottom or manifold when you can.

I use manifolds on my large coolers, I believe they both have their purposes. What reasons make them awful in your opinion?

 

[LandoLincoln]

Braids are awful primarily because they're so prone to stuck sparges. Yes, some people use them without problem, but many do not.

They also are not good at getting the best efficiency out of your mash tun, as we've probably just witnessed in this thread.

What do they have going for them? Well...they're cheap and they're easy to build. You can build a manifold out of CPVC and it's nearly as cheap, and working with CPVC is pretty simple too.

 

[blizz81]

I don't see why most people can't easily get to 70% or higher with the common setups.

If you haven't tried a finer crush, give it a go. It's THE number one way to increase efficiency (unless you have a real problem with your system)

That said, I too believe in consistency over efficiency at a certain point. If you have your own mill you can set a preferred gap and use it for every brew. You really can't be sure if the mill at the store is going to be the same from one day to the next. In that case, if your efficiency is below 70% I'd mill twice and see what happens. You may want to have a bit of extract on hand to save a brew if something ever happened to the gap setting on the store's mill...

This is pretty much my take.

1) Sure, consistency is a good goal, but if you're in the 60s, you can still get better brewhouse efficiency and attain consistency. There's obviously things you can look to change in your equipment / process if that's where you are.

2) If you want to have consistency either way, get a mill. You can measure the gap every crush. There's two extremes on the types of brewers: the brewer that takes RDWHAHB to the extreme and is brewing because "it's fun", and the brewer that obsesses over measurements and fine details because they seek as much control as they can get. If you're worrying about efficiency and want more consistency, you're getting towards the latter type, and the latter type needs their own mill.

 

[Gavin C]

2) If you want to have consistency either way, get a mill. You can measure the gap every crush. There's two extremes on the types of brewers: the brewer that takes RDWHAHB....

...and the brewer that obsesses over measurements and fine details because they seek as much control as they can get.

.... the latter type, and the latter type needs their own mill.

Couldn't aggree more with this as I am firmly in the latter category. The refining of measures and application of the science in my process is one aspect of brewing that I thoroughly enjoy.

A consistent and optimal milling of the grain has a profound positive effect on efficiency in my experience with my setup.



I think if you approach improving efficiency systematically and use the available online tools/software correctly an incremental improvement efficiency is readily achievable. If consistency is yoyoing you might consider changing how you are planning possible improvements rather than changing your system itself.

Accurate measures are crucial in this endeavor.

• Volumes,
  
• temperatures,
  
• gravities (correct temp of sample)
  
  
• and weight of grain

The example you give regarding mash temp is a good one. Repeated tries at arbitrary temperatures. (Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean exactly. My apologies if I sound obtuse). Why not preheat the mash tun and then fill it with strike water that you know will result in higher than the desired calculated strike temp. Let it cool to this level ensuring a homogenous temperature is present and then dough-in.

If the mash temp is off then you have some possibilities. Bad measures of volume of water/weight of grain or an inaccurate thermometer. the other possibility is incorrect data given to Beersmith. I find it to be extremely accurate at calculating strike temps for a planned mash.

In summary I think one should target a higher efficiency as it will allow you to get the system's parameters nailed down with consistency being a welcome byproduct of your work. This will allow you to better brew the beer you planned, not a beer dictated by your system's inaccuracy.

Edit: Another fundamental to rule out is to make sure you are getting full conversion of starches to sagars in the mash.

A conversion test of a mash sample


Best of luck with it.