When to step up from Extract to All Grain?

[kartracer2]

Brewing with extract now is not like it was years ago when I started. I still use extract using "PLETO". (Partial boil, Late Extract addition, Top Off water. I want to be part of the acronm world too)
I think that one thing that is being pushed is that AG/BIAB "needs" to be a "next step". Sure if you want to go that route for what ever reason, ROCK ON. I think there is so many other things that determin the quality of homebrew that going to AG just is low on my list. (if ever) Ferment temp control is one of them.
Here's a short read worth a couple of minutes. Just my .02 worth. (no charge)
Cheers,`
Joel B.

 

[NGD]

Grain is still your friend. Use steeped specialty malts liberally to generate complex flavors (though don’t use them wantonly—excessive use yields beer that tastes like coloring with all the crayons looks).

Been there, did that, can confirm. The way I see it. If your enjoying the process and results then whatever way works for you is the best way. I’ve helped out on a few AG for local brewers and had a great time. I almost always pick up a new trick that I can apply to extract brewing or learn something about brewing in general.

Main Point: have fun

 

[bwible]

If you go out and buy a grainfather or any other of those fancy brewing machines is that really brewing beer??? The machine basically does all the brewing for you. Dump in the grains, add some water, push some buttons and your done.

What do you think the big breweries do? They all have automated systems that do everything by a program.

I once asked if people brewing on these elaborate automated systems with controllers and programs purchased for thousands of dollars and glycol cooled unitanks were really home brewing and whether it was fair when they entered their beers in homebrew competitions against the rest of us with our buckets and carboys. I remember one competition in particular where a professional brewer entered his homebrew and I think that was what I objected to. The answer I got was if the beer is brewed at home, its homebrew. And fancy equipment and automated controls don’t automatically make someone a good brewer.

 

[NGD]

 

[hout17]

Do what makes you happy. You can go down the rabbit hole as far as you want and where to stop that is the question. Have fun and enjoy your beer however you decide to make it.

Let's keep beating that dead horse lol.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Here's a short read worth a couple of minutes.

+1 for Time Is Beer: Going Extract

It's yet another great article over at Craft Beer and Brewing for those who see their hobby outside of the "next level" or "rabbit hole" memes that are often seen here.

The author of the article also has a blog over at Beer: Simple.

 

[bwible]

I brewed 20 batches in 2020, 3 gallons each. Of those, 8 were extract.

I hope everybody realizes there is dry malt extract, which comes in a bag sort of like brown sugar, and there is liquid malt extract that comes in a can and is more of a thick syrup. When I buy extract, I tend to buy the dry malt extract (DME). When I brew with liquid malt extract (LME) its usually because I got it as a gift in a kit or something. I think its the LME in my opinion that has more of the extract twang I call it, the off-flavor people get from extract. I don’t get that flavor out of DME. Whether it comes from being in a can or what. Some of the cans are plastic now, like Breiss uses. I wonder if that makes a difference?

 

[Birrofilo]

I brewed 20 batches in 2020, 3 gallons each. Of those, 8 were extract.

I think its the LME in my opinion that has more of the extract twang I call it, the off-flavor people get from extract. I don’t get that flavor out of DME.

The gradual browning of LME is due to the Maillard reaction, which happens when you have water, proteins, certain kinds of sugar and acid in the same party. Even if you don't have heat in the party, with time the Maillard reaction will happen, that will change the aromatic profile of the LME and of the resulting beer.

On the one hand, DME has this advantage over LME, that having no water, does not undergo this slow Maillard reaction.

On the other hand, if you have a quantity of old LME you can use it for certain kinds of Belgian beer and save on candi sugar* ;-)

I have never noticed this typical off-flavour, but that might be either because the LME was fresh enough, or because the beer style that I was brewing did not suffer of it.

* Candi sugar being inverted sugar which underwent a Maillard reaction, and not only a caramellization.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

This recent topic extract taste...every time. covers a lot on malt extracts. So I don't have to retype it here.

 

[Dave T]

Flexibility, like most said here, but also cost. Extracts are expensive, and sometimes the cans look like they’ve sat around for a while. 4 extract brews, one a clone that was darn close, one partial mash with a home made mash tun that was a dismal failure, and 23 (24 by the time some read this) ag batches.

both techniques are solid, have plusses and minuses. I think partial mash best of both worlds, but I don’t do anything halfway

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What's half way about partial mash?

In a broader context (not replying directly to anything here in this topic)...

Partial mash / partial BIAB can be viewed as cost savings way a way to make larger (volume) or bigger (OG)

People (and, from what I've read, commercial brewers) brew big beers - like barley wines - where they mash part of the wort, then add DME/LME to get to the target OG.

Stove top brewing (e.g."wort a/b" in HtB, 4e) is another place where mashing grains in a bag can be useful. Mash some/most of the wort with the equipment one has, then add DME/LME & water at the end of the boil.

... a big 'bag' of ingredients and a big 'bag' of techniques ...

 

[Birrofilo]

People (and, from what I've read, commercial brewers) brew big beers - like barley wines - where they mash part of the wort, then add DME/LME to get to the target OG.

Sometimes the opposite is true. Stella Artois in its huge Louvain factory makes 2 beers, which then become many different models of beers: they brew at a high gravity - alcohol, and then dilute and "tweak" each single recipe.

Leffe and Stella Artois lager and other beers come from the same fermenter... (I find nothing against this, by the way, I am not a "zealot" of beer and brewing purity).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Sometimes the opposite is true. Stella Artois in its huge Louvain factory makes 2 beers, which then become many different models of beers: they brew at a high gravity - alcohol, and then dilute and "tweak" each single recipe.

In casual reading/scanning of the "top 4" (US-based) home brew forums, I haven't found places where people talk about doing this (for typical all-grain home brew batch sizes).

Any thoughts as to how this could scale down to typical home brew batch sizes? Or links to articles where people are doing this with 5 gal (or smaller) batches?

 

[Birrofilo]

In casual reading/scanning of the "top 4" (US-based) home brew forums, I haven't found places where people talk about doing this (for typical all-grain home brew batch sizes).

Any thoughts as to how this could scale down to typical home brew batch sizes? Or links to articles where people are doing this with 5 gal (or smaller) batches?

No, I was only referring to "commercial brewers" to whom you made a reference. This was in confirmation of your expressed thought, that one can play with densities and don't need to stick to after-boil density. You can add DME and you can add water, to "legitimately" get to your target. Ultimately the proof is in the pudding, and if the pudding is good, all is good. Commercial brewers do many things that some people consider impure and blasphemous, but they do sell good beer.

 

[HVCBrewing]

“There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness” Dave Berry.

I met a home brewer who was a general contractor and made his own sausage. He built a room in his home that was humidity and temperature controlled. I thought he might have gone to an extreme and I was a bit jealous.

IMO the migration between extract - BIAB and All Grain results in part from human nature. If you have a hobby, it comes with a desire to experiment and improve/succeed. The level of experimentation likely reflects our means, nature and tastes.

Fortunately you can have a good time with each method.