what is the most "water conserving" method of cooling wort quickly?

[pissgarn]

It currently takes me 40 gallons of hose water to cool a 5-6 gal batch using a 1/2" x 25' IC in NJ (the past 3 months). Yeah, I save it and try to dump it on bushes and plants, etc.. but that is WAY too much waste water. I'm upgrading to 10gal batches right now and looking for the best way to cool wort quickly that also doesn't use a ton of water. Plate chiller? pre-chiller? 50' IC? plate chiller with a pond pump in ice water? etc...

What are you guys doing? Thanks in advance for the ideas/help.

Steve

Since I'm filling the kids pool anyway, I just stick it in there.

Ron

 

[Randar]

I chilled at 102 degrees outside today by buying 60 lb of ice per batch (brewed two 5 gal batches) and putting 20 lb to start in a cooler and adding water to fill a 42 qt cooler which was connected to a 40 plate chiller. I added water to make an ice bath that I ran through the plate chiller. I recycled the water as it ran out back into the cooler/ice bath and continued adding another 20lb of ice. I measured the water as it ran out and kept up with the total. I used less than 7 gal of water plus 30 lb of ice( $4.50)....I dumped 5 gal of water for cleanup when the wort was chilled to 70.

So you pay $4.50 for ice PER 5 GAL BATCH? That would be more than a third of my per-5-gal budget.

 

[Bobby_M]

There's at least one thread a week here about trying to conserve water at the cost of many other things. Ice is rarely free unless it's winter in an area that freezes. 40 gallons of water for me is about 30 cents. The first 20 gallons goes into my HLT and MLT for cleanup anyway. The rest waters the plants because by then the output water is cool enough for them.

 

[Randar]

There's at least one thread a week here about trying to conserve water at the cost of many other things. Ice is rarely free unless it's winter in an area that freezes. 40 gallons of water for me is about 30 cents. The first 20 gallons goes into my HLT and MLT for cleanup anyway. The rest waters the plants because by then the output water is cool enough for them.

Yep, and if you're one of those double brew day folks, you can get a head start on your mash or sparge water heating.

 

[dragonbreath11]

If you live by a stream or have a neighbour with a pool or pond you can stick it in there. I have a small koi pond 50 gallons? I just stick the fermenter or keggle in there and it's down to ambient temps in 20 min.

 

[bja]

Can someone explain to me the reasoning for conserving water? Is it the cost or are you trying to be eco-friendly?

I have a well, so I think nothing of using all the water I want. If I dump 40 gallons in my yard, it just filters down through the ground back into the well.

I was in Houston a couple weeks ago where it hasn't rained measureably all summer. These people are still watering their lawns and washing their cars everyday as if everything is normal.

So can someone please tell me what the fascination is with conserving water to the point where people will spend more money on ice and electricity than they would've on just the water alone?

 

[emjay]

I don't really know, and have wondered the same myself, but I'm a bit biased. The water here comes directly from the Great Lakes, and so is incredibly cheap and abundant, but I don't know what the situation is like for people that don't have the benefit of living near such a massive freshwater supply.

Even then, I have a Therminator, which is the most efficient chiller on the market, but the only reason I got it is because it's also the fastest (two sides of the same coin, really). But the water I use goes down the drain, and I've never given a second's thought to do anything else with it, with one exception - the *only* way to recycle the water that I feel makes a lot of sense is to use it for brewing another batch, and that's not really about recycling the water so much as recycling the thermal energy it picked up in the process, thus requiring less time and fuel/electricity to bring it up to strike temps.

But yeah, other than than that, I also can't help but wonder why people sacrifice speed, chilling power, space and sometimes even money, going with setups that allow them to recycle their water.

 

[rothj617]

Just because people here in Houston ARE watering and washing cars as usual, doesn't mean they SHOULD be. We are currently under level 2 water restrictions, meaning no one should be watering their lawns more than twice a week, or after 3am. Water levels in Lake Houston are so low it's impacting the (already terrible) water quality, and they're having to drain water from other lakes to supplement. It's just a matter of being a good steward of a resource that's becoming increasingly scarce in many parts of the world.

 

[dragonbreath11]

Even if you "waste" a lot of water and it evaporates doesn't it come back one way or another?

 

[ArcaneXor]

Even if you "waste" a lot of water and it evaporates doesn't it come back one way or another?

That depends. The net water balance of the planet is essentially 0. That doesn't mean that the water you use is returned to your watershed or aquifer. Some aquifers are fossil aquifers that recharge extremely slowly, if at all (they are essentially mined). In many arid regions, much of the evapotranspiration does not re-precipitate locally, it is transported into other areas.

 

[EarthBound]

Yep, and if you're one of those double brew day folks, you can get a head start on your mash or sparge water heating.

This is what I do! I use a CFC.

Another use for the used cooling water is to pour it all into buckets and pour it from the buckets into your washing machine for the next load.

To answer the OP's question, a plate chiller would be your best bet, or you could no-chill and use no water.

 

[drkaeppel]

If this has already been mentioned, I apologize. You can hook up a garden hose to the outlet end of your immersion chiller, attach a sprinkler and water your lawn. Or use the outlet end to start doing dishes.

 

[Bobby_M]

With caution... the first 5-10 gallons of IC outflow is usually near 200F and a good way to kill your lawn. It would actually be better used to kill any stray weeks you have growing around your paved surfaces.

 

[ajwillys]

Yeah, generally I agree that it's impossible to "waste" water. It will just return as part of the cycle, of course. But for people that live in areas where their water supply verges on at-capacity during the summer, everyone generally tries to conserve. Some to be nice and not wasteful, some to save on expensive water bills.

The water I use comes from a river, which comes from many smaller rivers and streams. What I take out of it and then proceed to dump on the lawn won't make it back to that river this summer when it's needed, if ever. Granted, it will go somewhere and be (probably) used by someone, but that's a different story. It actually gets back to that river faster if I dump it in the city drainage!

 

[passedpawn]

Immersian chillers are nowhere near as fast as plate / counterflow chillers for 2 reasons: total surface area, and more importantly, you can do one-pass chilling. One-pass is where you maximize your chilling water flow, and slow your wort flow to the point where it is coming out of the chiller at your pitching temp. Can't do this with an immersion chiller.

Saving water is easy if you use a submersible pump and an available body of water. Keeping a tank of rainwater would work (these are becoming pretty common). I use my pool. Just run the return water back to whence it came.

 

[logdrum]

I just don't like wasting water, even though I live minutes from Lake Erie. I've been running a cooling loop (with a HF pond pump) from an ice filled 7gal cooler through my 40 plate CF chiller. I use cubes & blocks & just a bit of "starter water"-when all is said & done I have about 5-5 1/2 gal of water that I use for clean up. It's faster than tap water too.

-d

 

[bja]

I use my pool. Just run the return water back to whence it came.

What do you do when your pool is 90+ degrees?

 

[snowbeavers]

I don't understand why people don't just freeze a 4L of filtered water like I do and add it to the wort instead of spending gobs of money on wort chillers that also waste so much water. It brings the wort down to about 25 degrees or less and then I can pitch my yeast. Can someone explain why this method isn't used more??

 

[philjohnwilliams]

I don't understand why people don't just freeze a 4L of filtered water like I do and add it to the wort instead of spending gobs of money on wort chillers that also waste so much water. It brings the wort down to about 25 degrees or less and then I can pitch my yeast. Can someone explain why this method isn't used more??

Because many of the people here are brewing All Grain or are doing full wort extract boils, neither of which allow for adding water (or ice) post boil.

 

[copyright1997]

I don't understand why people don't just freeze a 4L of filtered water like I do and add it to the wort instead of spending gobs of money on wort chillers that also waste so much water. It brings the wort down to about 25 degrees or less and then I can pitch my yeast. Can someone explain why this method isn't used more??

I've done this, even with all grain. I did so because I couldn't bring 6+ gallons to a boil on my electric stove and because I didn't have a chiller and was concerned about the amount of time to bring the temperature down post-boil. However, there are some "costs" in doing this. First, since you will be using less water pre-boil, your efficiency (if doing all grain) will be lower. This means your grain bill will be higher. Second, since you are boiling the hops additions in less water, they are less effective and you will have to up the hops to get the same bitterness ratio. I know this sounds weird (my lhbs first told me and I've confirmed it in using beersmith). So, you hops costs will be higher.

 

[passedpawn]

What do you do when your pool is 90+ degrees?

I don't let my pool get over 85. But of course, that's not a good pitching temp.

I have a chest freezer right next to the pool. I drop the 85F carboy into the chest freezer. It's always down to temp in a mater of a few hours. I'm good with that.

I've used a pre-chiller IC (for after I'd get to 85), but I don't like to bother with ice anymore.

 

[BeerMe21]

Simply adjust the flow... If the IC output is not significantly warmer than the input then the flow is too high.

 

[bambrew]

Since I'm brewing in a shed that doesn't have any real plumbing, I direct the hot water coming out of my chiller to an old 40 gallon water heater tank I have in there (not hooked up to any gas) I can then pump the hot water back for all my cleaning needs for that brew day, without having to haul all my stuff up to my house to clean it.

 

[snowbeavers]

Because many of the people here are brewing All Grain or are doing full wort extract boils, neither of which allow for adding water (or ice) post boil.

Thanks. I realized this after talking with my friend last night. I have been doing partial grains instead of full grains so this made sense to me.

 

[geezerpk]

I use a conventional immersion chiller and run the output into a 15 gallon plastic tub. When that tub's filled I stop the flow. (Water in the tub gets used for garden as needed.) Generally that takes the temp to around 100º, a lot lower in the winter. I transfer the wort to a muslin wrapped fermentor set up as a swamp cooler with small evaporator fan at this point. Usually takes another couple of hours to chill to pitching temps. If it's summer time I just continue the swamp cooler operation for the first 4 or 5 days of fermenting.

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

A 5# block of Dry Ice

 

[Daemin]

The lady that owned my house before me was a little... off.

The water supply to the house was a "gravity fed spring system." That is, in the woods behind the house, up a hill which situated it higher than the second floor of the house, was an open pool about 10'x10', unknown depth, partialy covered with a tarp supported by 2x4's. At the bottom of the pool was a copper pipe that ran down hill to the basement, where it connected to the houses water supply pipes. The pool is full of leaves, frogs, and god knows what else. It was ******* disgusting.

As a condition of sale, she had a new well installed. But they left the old water feed in place in the basement, just capped it with a ball valve. So that's what I use for watering the plants outside, and for feeding my immersion cooler. I just take extra care that the water is contained and doesn't leak into the wort. I don't feel too concerned about where the water goes after heating up, as its not potable, and not doing anyone any good as is.

 

[tomroeder]

Here is something I found interesting...should put everyones mind at ease on wasting some water for homebrewing...I wouldn't worry about it....

http://www.hbmwd.com/site_documents/HSU 10-28-09 Research water intensive industries.pdf

 

[schmagy]

No one mentions agitating the wort with IC chillers. Its all about delta T. Grab a glove and stir/shake that chiller baby....... as you run the chiller the wort closest to the chiller will cool down, leaving a transition layer near the coils that has very low temp differential.

Agitating the wort makes keeps the hottest possible wort right next to the cold coils and maintains efficiency. Uses half the water.

Plate chillers (in addition to huge surface area) naturally have turbulent flow

 

[schmagy]

If you use liquid yeast, it will give you a real nice headstart on aeration as well