Whale Hunter

[Boilerfood]

2014 committee white whale list (to be published shortly)

Im such a **** for lists.

 

[JCastle1]

There are 5 bottles on the 2014 committee white whale list (to be published shortly) that I haven't had. I suppose I'm still looking for those.

I'm curious... Which ones?

 

[GrumpyOldTroll]

I'm curious... Which ones?

Soleil batch 1 - we had a trade lined up for this one but it feel through. Dem feels.

Selectie C - sorta after this one -- it's just 2000 3F OG relabeled for Japan so it's hard to get too excited about it given what it will take to get.

Nørrebro saison lambic Pinot noir. Various leads have just never worked out. jbuddle and I thought we landed one at a bar once, but it turned out to be something else. That was a fun night.

Lindeman's Loerik - could've ordered this at DHVL last summer but I was too busy drinking 90s 3F geuze and other ridiculous stuff. Next time.

Pre-2004 Fou foune - meh. I've had it back to 2006 and it's better 0-2 years old IMO.

There's some crazy rare stuff on the list. Kersengueuze was about 70 magnums total and mace 20ish years ago. Spuyten Duyvil was only /168 and they're almost gone. V005 was 72 (or 84?) bottles and that's a tough one too. The Swedish oak stormaksporter was something insane like fifty 300 ml bottles. Bullfrog strawberry fields is very, very rare.

 

[stupac2]

Selectie C - sorta after this one -- it's just 2000 3F OG relabeled for Japan so it's hard to get too excited about it given what it will take to get.

I've always thought these were weird. If it's the same beer, who cares about it having a different label? If you have a Japan fetish then sure, fine, but really going after Selectie C isn't something I'd do.

 

[jbuddle]

Nørrebro saison lambic Pinot noir. Various leads have just never worked out. jbuddle and I thought we landed one at a bar once, but it turned out to be something else. That was a fun night.

When barleywine tastes like saison it's time to turn in for the evening. Must find this one soon...

 

[JohnfromPurdue]

There's some crazy rare stuff on the list. Kersengueuze was about 70 magnums total and mace 20ish years ago. Spuyten Duyvil was only /168 and they're almost gone. V005 was 72 (or 84?) bottles and that's a tough one too. The Swedish oak stormaksporter was something insane like fifty 300 ml bottles. Bullfrog strawberry fields is very, very rare.

Any thought of taking some off the list due to them essentially being extinct? At some point, if a beer hasn't traded hands in a few years I'd think it might be time to lay it to rest.

 

[GrumpyOldTroll]

Any thought of taking some off the list due to them essentially being extinct? At some point, if a beer hasn't traded hands in a few years I'd think it might be time to lay it to rest.

Everything on the list has changed hands in the last year. This year we talked about whether to include certain things. Next year I think we will talk about Kersengueuze coming off. Unless someone finds another.

 

[degardebrewing]

If I make a five bottle coovie and don't sell any of it can it be on the next list?
What if I promise to make it taste horrible?
Srs. Will do it. DONT MAKE ME.

 

[jbuddle]

If I make a five bottle coovie and don't sell any of it can it be on the next list?
What if I promise to make it taste horrible?
Srs. Will do it. DONT MAKE ME.

You'll need to secretly send 4 of the 5 bottles to Chicago and NYC first. Then we can add it.

Srs. Not srs. Who knows. But srs.

 

[degardebrewing]

You'll need to secretly send 4 of the 5 bottles to Chicago and NYC first. Then we can add it.

Srs. Not srs. Who knows. But srs.

I have six bottles of 750ml Loak. The only six.
GAME. ON.

 

[shelf_turd_ferguson]

Srs: I've read this whole thread and I think it was said but I didn't get it, what makes a beer a whale?
How do you keep track of new whales/nominate whales?

I think some beers that trade somewhat easy are fantastic, and don't see myself being attracted to whales for years, if ever. Are Whales usually worth the effort it takes beyond getting easier fantastic beers, in that the quality, flavor, etc. really are leagues and leagues above other great stuff?

Aside:
I think cosmicevan thought stupac2 was being srs in response to my post.
I can explain what I wrote to Stu if anyone cares. It came off as rude though I didn't mean to be.
FWIW, someone could never have had a whale and still be a whale hunter... perhaps he or she has gotten close but failed 15 times. That would make them more of a true Ahab.

 

[tinypyramids1]

i myself am not a whale hunter, but i wrote a sort of mini manifesto on this a while ago. i have no idea where it went, though.

there's a million factors that could amp up the trade value for a beer. something gets to whale status because of:

- low bottle count
- hype over the brewery
- hype over the base beer (if a BA version of a base beer)
- style hype (lambics, sours, ba stouts, ba barleywines, etc.)
- low bottle limit at release time (if it's the kind of beer that is even released to the public)
- one-off (not regular release)
- non-american brewery (not because of quality but because of difficulty of acquisition, as most beer traders seem to be american)
- bottle cost
- age of the beer (and how likely it is to still be good)
- how many bottles are likely left in the wild
and last but not least,
- how the beer tastes.

 

[stupac2]

Srs: I've read this whole thread and I think it was said but I didn't get it, what makes a beer a whale?

Highly desirable and highly difficult to acquire. tinypyramids's list has some of the rationales that go into this, but I think he's deconstructing it a bit much. The basic math is just "rare+desirable".

How do you keep track of new whales/nominate whales?

It's not objective. Everyone has their own thing. Sometimes some people want some random obscure bottle and it's their whale and no one else's. The list is the stuff that's generally perceived as whaley, some guys really like old Fantomes which can be just as hard to track down, it's just that there aren't as many people doing the tracking, so they don't make the list.

Are Whales usually worth the effort it takes beyond getting easier fantastic beers, in that the quality, flavor, etc. really are leagues and leagues above other great stuff?

Generally no. I mean, Blauw is probably the best gueuze possible, but it's not like it's going to make you literally explode with orgasmic ecstacy compared to drinking a Lente (or even a regular old 3F Geuze). I think that flavor gains are largely logarithmic* with quality, that is that the farther up the curve you go the smaller the gains get. At the beginning the gap between the crap and the decent is huge, the gap between decent as good is smaller, good and great smaller still, until you get to the point where the gap between various "cream of the crop" beers is just infinitesimal. If that makes sense.

For me most of the fun of whale hunting comes in who you experience it with, whether it's sharing an absurdly priced beer with my fiancee while traveling, or having a tasting with a bunch of friends, it's having the reason to come together and drink with awesome people that's really the best part. And you can do that with whatever beer.

*:

 

[shelf_turd_ferguson]

Highly desirable and highly difficult to acquire. tinypyramids's list has some of the rationales that go into this, but I think he's deconstructing it a bit much. The basic math is just "rare+desirable".

It's not objective. Everyone has their own thing. Sometimes some people want some random obscure bottle and it's their whale and no one else's. The list is the stuff that's generally perceived as whaley, some guys really like old Fantomes which can be just as hard to track down, it's just that there aren't as many people doing the tracking, so they don't make the list.

Generally no. I mean, Blauw is probably the best gueuze possible, but it's not like it's going to make you literally explode with orgasmic ecstacy compared to drinking a Lente (or even a regular old 3F Geuze). I think that flavor gains are largely logarithmic* with quality, that is that the farther up the curve you go the smaller the gains get. At the beginning the gap between the crap and the decent is huge, the gap between decent as good is smaller, good and great smaller still, until you get to the point where the gap between various "cream of the crop" beers is just infinitesimal. If that makes sense.

For me most of the fun of whale hunting comes in who you experience it with, whether it's sharing an absurdly priced beer with my fiancee while traveling, or having a tasting with a bunch of friends, it's having the reason to come together and drink with awesome people that's really the best part. And you can do that with whatever beer.

*:

Great answers from you and tinypyramids, thanks!
I bolded in your above post my take on why I got into beer and stay in such a zany community.
But why'd you use a log base 2 bro? Get that ln action.
I know some dudes on here like a natural log

 

[tinypyramids1]

Highly desirable and highly difficult to acquire. tinypyramids's list has some of the rationales that go into this, but I think he's deconstructing it a bit much. The basic math is just "rare+desirable".

this is true. i wrote the manifesto when someone complained about how hard BVDL was to trade for and then asked 'is it really THAT good?' at that point it was more about "hey dude, there's a lot more that goes into the trade value of a beer, here's some examples that contribute to value" but really as you say, it comes down more to rare + desirable and really, everything i listed is just an extra set of points that adds either to a beer's implicit rarity or desirability score.

 

[ridglens]

Highly desirable and highly difficult to acquire. tinypyramids's list has some of the rationales that go into this, but I think he's deconstructing it a bit much. The basic math is just "rare+desirable".

It's not objective. Everyone has their own thing. Sometimes some people want some random obscure bottle and it's their whale and no one else's. The list is the stuff that's generally perceived as whaley, some guys really like old Fantomes which can be just as hard to track down, it's just that there aren't as many people doing the tracking, so they don't make the list.

Generally no. I mean, Blauw is probably the best gueuze possible, but it's not like it's going to make you literally explode with orgasmic ecstacy compared to drinking a Lente (or even a regular old 3F Geuze). I think that flavor gains are largely logarithmic* with quality, that is that the farther up the curve you go the smaller the gains get. At the beginning the gap between the crap and the decent is huge, the gap between decent as good is smaller, good and great smaller still, until you get to the point where the gap between various "cream of the crop" beers is just infinitesimal. If that makes sense.

For me most of the fun of whale hunting comes in who you experience it with, whether it's sharing an absurdly priced beer with my fiancee while traveling, or having a tasting with a bunch of friends, it's having the reason to come together and drink with awesome people that's really the best part. And you can do that with whatever beer.

*:

I think this is my favorite Stu post to date...

There was logic, there was romance, there was truth and vulnerability.... and even non-linear math.

 

[stupac2]

But why'd you use a log base 2 bro? Get that ln action.
I know some dudes on here like a natural log

I used that one because it was the one on wikipedia. Since wikipedia is edited by computer nerds they used base 2. I actually considered finding a different one, but lazy.

 

[cosmicevan]

Aside:
I think cosmicevan thought stupac2 was being srs in response to my post.

drinkin and postin gets me all the time

 

[JulianB1]

I used that one because it was the one on wikipedia. Since wikipedia is edited by computer nerds they used base 2. I actually considered finding a different one, but lazy.

"There is no base but e."

I might actually use that as the name of a homebrew, now that I think about it...

 

[Thorpe]

I suppose there are many who could respond to this. GrumpyOldTroll Speedwayjim Dunt Joel66 Forgetfu Sean9689 Thorpe429 Totoropanda callmemickey etc.

1. What proves to be the hardest beer for you to hunt down?
2. What was the best tasting rare beer?
3. What was the most surprising rare beer (good or bad)?
4. What's your favorite daily drinker?
5. If you could fill your cellar with one beer, what would it be?

So I'm bad at the Internet and just noticed the original post. I'll have to read through over lunch, but thought I'd start at the beginning:

1. This is really difficult to say. Most of the "whale tastings" that I've been part of have been group efforts to acquire a lot of the bottles. I've also been extremely fortunate to have very generous friends and traders. In terms of what I haven't had but would like, I'd say De La Senne Crianza. Not sure it'll really even be that great anymore, but I absolutely loved Wadesda #1, love De La Senne, and love Cantillon, so I'd really like to find it some day. Problem is not many people care about it and I've never even located one, let alone been close to landing it.

2. For me, Cantillon Loerik, hands down.

3. Good: Veritas 005. I don't normally care that much for Lost Abbey sours. This one actually was crazy good.

Bad: Cantillon Feestbier. Fresh gooseberries are one of my favorite fruits. I was imaging those mixed with Cantillon lambic. Sounds crazy good. The beer itself? Ugh.

4. Commercial: Stillwater Classique. Great session saison. jbuddle knows what I'm talking about! Since I frequently buy out all the Classique at stores around me and somehow haven't learned to special order it by the case, I sometimes have to go elsewhere. Others that I drink a bunch of but not as much as Classique due to ABV, cost, availability, etc. are Saison Dupont (draft or 330mL brown bottles only; an amazing experience), Rodenbach Red (wish Grand Cru came in six packs as well), and Sofie. When I go on a hop binge, it's usually with Daisy Cutter / Akari Shogun (Half Acre, please make this year round), Anti Hero, or Zombie Dust.

Otherwise, I drink a ton of homebrew. I'm obsessive. I'd like to open a small "farmhouse" brewery in a few years, and to do that I need (wife would love that word choice) to try every saison strain, Brett strain, saison / Brett blend, etc. Then each with bacteria. Then at different fermentation temperatures. Then each with some local wild yeast. All of this experimentation means downing a lot of homebrew. Good thing I generally keep them 5% or less

5. If we're going with readily available, I'll say 3F Oude Geuze. If we're going with rare, I'll say Don Q. That's the one fruit lambic that has really, really wowed me above and beyond others, whereas the gap between Loerik and other great gueuzes isn't quite as big.

 

[shelf_turd_ferguson]

So I'm bad at the Internet and just noticed the original post. I'll have to read through over lunch, but thought I'd start at the beginning:

2. For me, Cantillon Loerik, hands down.

5. If we're going with readily available, I'll say 3F Oude Geuze. If we're going with rare, I'll say Don Q. That's the one fruit lambic that has really, really wowed me above and beyond others, whereas the gap between Loerik and other great gueuzes isn't quite as big.

If Loerik is the best tasting, than why would you take Don Q (which you call above and beyond...even Loerik?) over Loerik?

 

[stupac2]

If Loerik is the best tasting, than why would you take Don Q (which you call above and beyond...even Loerik?) over Loerik?

There are lots of really good gueuzes, there aren't as many really good fruit lambics.

 

[Thorpe]

If Loerik is the best tasting, than why would you take Don Q (which you call above and beyond...even Loerik?) over Loerik?

This exactly:

There are lots of really good gueuzes, there aren't as many really good fruit lambics.

Maybe my initial post wasn't clear. Just approximating, I'll say Loerik is a 100 and 3F Oude Geuze is a 95. Don Q is also a 100, but St. Lamvinus is "only" a 92.

 

[user 304830]

1. Do any of you guys follow this newish trend of rare beers showing up at auction houses? Something previously limited to just walzewines.

http://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/...t=0&saleno=2707B&display=list&lot=141&start=4

2. Were any of you the winner bidder on Don Q?

 

[pjl44]

1. Do any of you guys follow this newish trend of rare beers showing up at auction houses? Something previously limited to just walzewines.

http://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/...t=0&saleno=2707B&display=list&lot=141&start=4

2. Were any of you the winner bidder on Don Q?

Rifling through this is fun. There are 3 vintages of Cable Car Kriek ('11, '12, '13)?

 

[matedog]

1. Do any of you guys follow this newish trend of rare beers showing up at auction houses? Something previously limited to just walzewines.

http://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/...t=0&saleno=2707B&display=list&lot=141&start=4

2. Were any of you the winner bidder on Don Q?

Jesus, $154 for a 2013 DDG.

 

[bearsonacid1]

Nørrebro saison lambic Pinot noir. Various leads have just never worked out. jbuddle and I thought we landed one at a bar once, but it turned out to be something else. That was a fun night.

E. Hill was selling this out of his retail shop when HF opened, among some other rare things. In hindsight, I should've bought as many as he had. mad dumb

 

[Thorpe]

E. Hill was selling this out of his retail shop when HF opened, among some other rare things. In hindsight, I should've bought as many as he had. mad dumb

Certainly wish I had known that. Definitely one of my top few wants and one of the only remaining beers that I would really like to try given its uniqueness.

 

[tehzachatak]

Certainly wish I had known that. Definitely one of my top few wants and one of the only remaining beers that I would really like to try given its uniqueness.

I think Shaun still has a few

 

[carchadon]

The worst type of whale hunter is the lonely one.

Drinking Veritas 004 out of a plastic cup in an airport hotel in Newark, while waiting to move to Germany, while eating cupcakes from Carlos' bakery (Cake Boss). Alone, my family was asleep. . .

On the night my youngest son, Leondias was born in Germany, he who had been conceived in a porta-potty in the VIP section of the Ithaca beer fest in 2011. . . but on the night he was born, because you can't stay overnight in a German hospital, drinking a Cable Car 08, and then having a fresh Lente next, which Armand talked me up as he sold me, with 11 others. Alone. . .had a second Lente as well. . .the Cable Car should have been an abortion.

Drinking a 2L growler of Pliny the Younger in 2010, in a plastic cup again, in about 45 minutes! in a hotel outside of Daytona on the night of the 500, and then running outside and peeing on all of the NASCAR replica cars. Hey, that car is made with Tide, it'll come clean. We drove from Buffalo to Key Largo then Orlando, swam with some dolphins went to Disney World, and OH YEAH, I was at Sea World a week later when the trainer was killed by the psycho whale. The whale game isn't always fun for all. Alone. . .

Went to the Festival in Portland, had a 3 session pass. Huge line to get in for the last session, as the volunteers basically rioted. Snuck? in the workers entrance with a wristband and went straight to the Drie Fonteinen table and proceeded to drink about a bottles worth of 99 OGV from 3 bottles, with a friend of mine, Shaun Hill and a couple others. I had about 2000 ticket and just kept pulling them out of my pocket, like intestines from a disemboweled child. I guess I wasn't alone on that one.