Water treatments and eherms help

[schach23]

Guys just thought of this as I heat up the strike water in my HLT.

I put 10 gallons of water in to start. Use about 5 gallons for strike today. First time treating my water based on bru n water spreadsheet. It says to add my salts per 5 gallons of strike and then the sparge. Obviously I have 10 gallons in the HLT.

How do you guys add your salts? To the mash or HLT water? Should I take out some HLT water?

Thanks

Scott

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

Disclaimer: I base this solely on my own logic and have no facts to back it up.

I add my salts to the strike water since that is what will be in the mash and affecting pH. I then sparge with 100% distilled water. I figure that by using sparge water with neutral bicarbonate, there is no need for salts.

However, I assume if you were sparging with your own water then you would want to add salts due to the bicarbonate.

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

Another thought. If you treat the entire volume based on Bru n Water, then it is probably taking info account that some will be used for the mash. I think you will be good to go by treating the entire 10 gallons.

 

[wmubronco]

I use Bru'N as well. I'm slowly converting to eHerms, however my setup now is the igloo cooler for MT. I add all the mash addition salts/minerals to the igloo cooler and give it thorough stir with all strike water before adding my grains. The sparge additions are added to all my sparge water before I begin that process.

So in your case, I would recommend obtaining your strike water in MT, add the salt additions, then stir well, before adding your grains. The remaining water you would then add the sparge addtions from the Bru'N sheet.

 

[cyanmonkey]

I add salts to strike and match my sparge water to it.

I add acid to strike water only.

Adding salts for me is an extra component to flavor. Like on a pale ale, I boost sulfates up to help dry it out and accentuate hops. If I were to sparge with distilled water, my sulfates in the finished beer would effectively cut in half.

 

[mabrungard]

You can treat all 10 gallons of the water, but you do need to recognize that the mashing water alkalinity is likely to be different from the sparging water's. Sparging water alkalinity always need to be low, but the alkalinity of the mashing water may need to be lower or higher depending upon the grist. Very pale beers may need a bit more acid added to the mashing water while dark beers may need an alkali added to avoid an overly low mash pH.

Personally, I prepare each water separately. Even when I brewed on my old single-burner, gas rig, it only took about 30 minutes to bring my batch of sparging water to temperature and that water got its prescribed amount of minerals and acid that did differ from the mashing water's doses. Now with my electric rig, its even faster. But the point is that there is plenty of time during the mashing period for me to prepare and heat that batch of sparging water.

Give some thought as to why you must prepare all your water at once.

 

[RocketBrewer]

Bru n water calculates the salts for mash and sparge (with the exception of a few that are not recommended for sparge). I treat all my water (including some extra for clean up). For ease of calculating, once I get my adjustments where I want them, I will briefly put my full volume of water in as the mash volume so that it gives me the full amount of salts to add.

 

[schach23]

You can treat all 10 gallons of the water, but you do need to recognize that the mashing water alkalinity is likely to be different from the sparging water's. Sparging water alkalinity always need to be low, but the alkalinity of the mashing water may need to be lower or higher depending upon the grist. Very pale beers may need a bit more acid added to the mashing water while dark beers may need an alkali added to avoid an overly low mash pH.

Personally, I prepare each water separately. Even when I brewed on my old single-burner, gas rig, it only took about 30 minutes to bring my batch of sparging water to temperature and that water got its prescribed amount of minerals and acid that did differ from the mashing water's doses. Now with my electric rig, its even faster. But the point is that there is plenty of time during the mashing period for me to prepare and heat that batch of sparging water.

Give some thought as to why you must prepare all your water at once.

Thanks

The problem I had was adjusting the sparge pH. When I use my 3 vessel eherms, I fill my 15 gal HLT to about 10 gallons. I transfer over my strike water to my MLT. I treat the water with my salts and lactic acid. That's easy. I then refill my HLT to about 10 gallons which covers the herms coil. I added my sparge salts to my kettle but wasn't sure how to add my lactic acid for my sparge. Bru n water calculates sparge water volume and the necessary ml of lactic acid, but when using the 3 vessel herms setup you simply sparge until you fill your kettle to your pre-boil volume. If Bru n water is telling me to add for example 2 ml of lactic acid to 5 gallons of water (so the ratio would be 0.4 ml/gallon) could i just add 4 ml of lactic acid to my 10 gallon HLT water? I will only be using probably around 5 gallons so half will be "wasted."

Thanks

Scott

 

[dmcman73]

Correct me if I am wrong but, from what I've read the pH should be adjusted in the Mash with the grist and water. If I remember correctly, it was recommended to mash in, wait about 10 minutes, draw a sample from the mash and measure the pH from there since grains can adversely affect pH no matter how dialed in you are in the HLT. My water is around a 7 pH, after mashing in and measuring a sample, my pH during the mash is around 5.6-5.7 so I just leave it. If it was off, I would add any adjustments to the mash and stir in and then take another sample.

Also, isn't pH (again, I could be wrong) important during the mash but if your fly sparging, it doesn't matter because essentially the conversion is already completed and you're essentially just "rinsing" the grains.

 

[mabrungard]

Correct me if I am wrong but, from what I've read the pH should be adjusted in the Mash with the grist and water. If I remember correctly, it was recommended to mash in, wait about 10 minutes, draw a sample from the mash and measure the pH from there since grains can adversely affect pH no matter how dialed in you are in the HLT. My water is around a 7 pH, after mashing in and measuring a sample, my pH during the mash is around 5.6-5.7 so I just leave it. If it was off, I would add any adjustments to the mash and stir in and then take another sample.

Also, isn't pH (again, I could be wrong) important during the mash but if your fly sparging, it doesn't matter because essentially the conversion is already completed and you're essentially just "rinsing" the grains.

I've found that this approach is pretty difficult to execute. The term "chasing your tail" comes to mind. Having a good idea regarding the water and grist and any treatment prior to mashing in, is a far better approach. At least that way, you will be in the ballpark. Adding minerals or acids to the mash after the grain is in there is very difficult to mix and homogenize. If you have a RIMS or HERMS, adding the minerals or acids after the fact is a little easier since the recirculation should provide good homogenation.

The alkalinity of the sparging water is VERY important. In essence, we need the sparging water to have very little alkalinity so that when its added, it doesn't significantly raise the mash and wort pH. High pH in the kettle produces problems just like high mash pH does.

 

[schach23]

I've found that this approach is pretty difficult to execute. The term "chasing your tail" comes to mind. Having a good idea regarding the water and grist and any treatment prior to mashing in, is a far better approach. At least that way, you will be in the ballpark. Adding minerals or acids to the mash after the grain is in there is very difficult to mix and homogenize. If you have a RIMS or HERMS, adding the minerals or acids after the fact is a little easier since the recirculation should provide good homogenation.

The alkalinity of the sparging water is VERY important. In essence, we need the sparging water to have very little alkalinity so that when its added, it doesn't significantly raise the mash and wort pH. High pH in the kettle produces problems just like high mash pH does.

Agreed.

Can you address my question above? Thanks

 

[mabrungard]

Mineral salts can be added at various stages of the brewing process. Just be aware that there are effects in adding at one point or another. It depends what your goal is. With respect to the acidification of sparging water for alkalinity reduction, that should be performed prior to adding to the mash.