Water Adjustments make me want to bang my head on desk

[Snafu]

I'm comparing the various spreadsheets out there and have a few questions, on TH's EZ sheet, it asks for % of crystal & roasted malts as well as total grist. So, for example 9.5 lbs pale malt, 2.5lbs munich malt 10, 1.25lbs crystal 30, 1.25 chocolate malt, 1.25 flaked oats. I'm assuming this would equal 15.75lbs grains 1.25lbs crystal malt & 1.25 roasted malt. Correct?

On Kai's sheet I'm confused on the "mash and beer info" section. Total water, strike and sparge , all have a "l" beside it, is that liters? I'm not sure why, but the mash thickness never comes out right so I must be doing something wrong.

If someone is willing, I'd like to email or PM them my recipe, water profile, and what I 'think' my salt additions are and let me know if I'm on the right track.

The water profile is my final frontier, I have a pretty good grasp on everything but this dang water stuff. :insert smiley banging head on hard surface:

 

[nilo]

yes, your grain weight seems to be correct
You can change the volume and weight units on the top of Kai's spreadsheet to gal and lb.
You can PM me your info if you would like some ideas, but I'm far from any expert in water chemistry.

 

[Snafu]

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 6.00 Wort Size (Gal): 6.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 15.75
Anticipated OG: 1.071 Plato: 17.21
Anticipated SRM: 31.8
Anticipated IBU: 11.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Actual OG: 1.066 Plato: 16.11
Actual FG: 1.012 Plato: 3.07


Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 1.50 Gallons Per Hour

Raw Pre-Boil Amounts - only targeted volume/gravity and evaporation
rate taken into account:

Pre-Boil Wort Size: 7.50 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.057 SG 13.93 Plato

With sparge water, mash water, additional infusions, vessel losses, top-up
water and evaporation rate recorded in the Water Needed Calculator:

Water Needed Pre-Boil Wort Size: 8.45 Gal
Water Needed Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.050 SG 12.43 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
60.3 9.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) USA 1.037 2
15.9 2.50 lbs. Munich Malt 10 Canada 1.037 10
7.9 1.25 lbs. Crystal 30L USA 1.035 30
7.9 1.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt USA 1.029 350
7.9 1.25 lbs. Flaked Oats USA 1.033 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.75 oz. Fuggle Pellet 4.75 10.9 60 min.
0.75 oz. Fuggle Pellet 4.75 0.9 2 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Unit(s)Irish Moss Fining 10 Min.(boil)
5.00 Oz Malto-Dextrine Other 20 Min.(boil)
5.00 Oz Lactose Other 15 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP013 London Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step
Heat Type: Infusion

Grain Lbs: 15.75
Water Qts: 18.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 4.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.14 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.30
Grain Temp: 62 F

Dough In Temp: 184 Time: 5
Saccharification Rest Temp: 158 Time: 45
Mash-out Rest Temp: 170 Time: 15
Sparge Temp: 168 Time: 60

Runnings Stopped At: 1.010 SG 2.56 Plato


Additional Infusion Temperatures And Amounts
--------------------------------------------

Mash Out Step: 6.34 Qts of 210 Degree Water Added


Total Mash Volume Gal: 7.35 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.



Water Needed For Brewing Session
--------------------------------

Sparge Amount: 4.75 Sparge Deadspace: 0.25 Total Into Mash: 4.50

Total Grain Lbs: 15.75 Qts Per Lbs: 1.55 Total From Mash: 4.20
Mash Gallons: 6.09
Grain Absorption: 1.89

Amount Lost in Lauter Tun Deadspace,
Grant and Misc. to Kettle: 0.25

Top Up Water Added to Kettle: 0.00
Amount into Kettle: 8.45

Boil Time (min): 60.00 Evaporation Rate: 1.50
Amount after Boil: 6.95

Left in Kettle Deadspace: 0.50
Left in Hopback: 0.00
Left in Counterflow Chiller: 0.00
Left in Other Equipment / Other Absorption: 0.00

Amount to Chillers: 6.45
Amount After Cooling (4 perc.): 6.19



Grain absorption rate is: 0.12 (Gallons Per Lbs)

Evaporation rate is Gallons Per Hour

This formulation will yield 6.19 gallons of fermentable wort.

You will need 10.84 gallons of water for the complete brewing session.


My water analysis is Ca=27, Mg=6, Na=36, So4-S (x3)=78, Cl=24, HCO3=57, ave ph=7.9 I'm adding the following (using TH's EZ sheet) 5g (mash) 4g (boil) of CaCl2, 2g MgSO4 (mash only), 6g NaHCO3 (mash) 4.5g (boil), & 6g CaCO3 (mash only).

According to EZ sheet all ions are within recommended range with a mash PH of 5.32 with a 1.34 Chloride to Sulfate ratio (malty)

 

[Snafu]

Spreadsheet attached

View attachment Copy of EZ_water_calculator_2.0.pdf

 

[nilo]

Your plan is close to what I would do.
One thing we must nail is how to use the fields Mash and sparge water. I'm still confused with it, but here's what I understood and what I would do.

 

[Snafu]

Nilo, I agree, I wasn't clear on the mash and sparge either. I didn't know if it was total mash water after all my additions or just what was in the strike water prior to mash out. I still would have thought the sparge water was straight forward at 4.75 but if not that would make a huge difference in the final RA. Your additions also make sence based on the mash and sparge that you have listed, the only reason I was adding some chalk was I was already getting nervous adding 6g's of baking soda as it was. I wasn't sure how much was "excessive". Maybe the "experts" will weigh in, seems everyone will reply to a "is my beer ruined" or "is my beer infected" thread, but not one like this. Nilo, I do thank you for your time, I'm not sure why the water stuff isn't making sense, I just need to see how others would adjust "my" recipe for it to click I guess. Thanks again.

 

[mabrungard]

RA is a concept that is ONLY applicable to the mash water. It is not applicable to the sparge water. Alkalinity and pH are the main considerations for sparge water.

The only other real 'need' I see for sparge water is that it contain sufficient calcium to avoid reducing the overall calcium content in the boil kettle. A 'nice to have' consideration is that the sparge water should have a similar flavor ion profile so that the goals of the water profile are generally maintained.

One thing that is not allowable in Sparge Water is stuff that adds alkalinity to the water. That means that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should a brewing water program be instructing a brewer to add chalk, baking soda, pickling lime, or other alkalinity producer to the sparge water.

The upcoming version of Bru'n Water will make that more apparent and even offer an automatic adjustment to the gypsum and CaCl amounts so that the calcium concentration is maintained when those alkalinity producers are specified for the mash water but need to be deleted from the sparge water. This adjustment will be recommended only for starting waters with low calcium content, so the brewer will be able to toggle this feature on and off as they feel fit.

 

[Snafu]

So, something more like this?

View attachment EZ_water_calculator_2.0 Porter.pdf

 

[nilo]

So, something more like this?

Looks good to me, but I have a problem on the RA. Not your RA, but in general.
The tools we use, EZ, Palm's, Kai's or Bru'n Water do tell us what the mash RA is, right?
The RA recommended for each beer style is for the wort going into the fermenter, correct?
So the RA value we see from these tools would have to be corrected/adjusted before we can use it (to make sure it is within the best for each beer style) since the mash volume will be dilluted with sparge water?