Was very, very sour, could it really fix itself?

[FatherDougal]

Ten days ago I tested an ale that had been bottled a little over three weeks before. I saved a little of the extra for tasting at the time, but forgot to try it for a while. (Shoved in the fridge) That sample was undrinkably sour, and I thought it was from the non-sanitied jar. (I had planned to drink it right away) Turned out the whole batch was Very Amazingly Sour. I was sad but didn't do anything with it. I tried it again tonight thinking I might reuse the bottles and it was much less sour. I had assumed it had been infected in the primary somehow, but if that had happened I would have thought it would stay bad. Could the beer just be super sour somehow and need a ton of aging? I'm planning to just let it go a long while and see, but I would never have guessed that something so sour I could still taste it the next morning could get better. Any thoughts?

Recipe below.

2.125 gallons
2lbs light DME
10 oz pale chocolate
2 oz Crystal 40
2 oz Golden naked oats

.25 oz East Kent Goldings at 45 minutes.

US-05

OG = 1.054
FG = 1.010

 

[eric19312]

Sorry...nothing in that recipe suggests sour flavor...sounds like contamination

 

[FatherDougal]

Sorry...nothing in that recipe suggests sour flavor...sounds like contamination

That what I thought, but then how is it getting better?

 

[eRicphtgr]

Ten days ago I tested an ale that had been bottled a little over three weeks before. I saved a little of the extra for tasting at the time, but forgot to try it for a while. (Shoved in the fridge) That sample was undrinkably sour, and I thought it was from the non-sanitied jar. (I had planned to drink it right away) Turned out the whole batch was Very Amazingly Sour. I was sad but didn't do anything with it. I tried it again tonight thinking I might reuse the bottles and it was much less sour. I had assumed it had been infected in the primary somehow, but if that had happened I would have thought it would stay bad. Could the beer just be super sour somehow and need a ton of aging? I'm planning to just let it go a long while and see, but I would never have guessed that something so sour I could still taste it the next morning could get better. Any thoughts?

Recipe below.

2.125 gallons
2lbs light DME
10 oz pale chocolate
2 oz Crystal 40
2 oz Golden naked oats

.25 oz East Kent Goldings at 45 minutes.

US-05

OG = 1.054
FG = 1.010

Fermentation temperature well control?

what water do you use? If tap water you gonna remove chlorine.

hope this link could help you to sort out your sour issue.

https://www.morebeer.com/content/homebrew-off-flavors

 

[FatherDougal]

Fermentation temperature well control?

what water do you use? If tap water you gonna remove chlorine.

hope this link could help you to sort out your sour issue.

https://www.morebeer.com/content/homebrew-off-flavors

Tap water, used in many other happy beers, so probably not it.

No temp control other than keeping the place at 68. Again, many other beers have been fine that way, so probably not it.

Great site, thank you. Once again it looks like an infection, aside from it getting better. That's why I am asking here, how can it be getting noticeably better if it is an infection?

 

[Dcpcooks]

Tap water, used in many other happy beers, so probably not it.



No temp control other than keeping the place at 68. Again, many other beers have been fine that way, so probably not it.



Great site, thank you. Once again it looks like an infection, aside from it getting better. That's why I am asking here, how can it be getting noticeably better if it is an infection?

I think that would depend on what infected it. If it was brett lacto or pedio I could see it getting better.

I am a bit confused with what you sampled originally. Was it the stuff in a jar after it sat in the fridge and then a separate bottle of beer?

 

[FatherDougal]

I think that would depend on what infected it. If it was brett lacto or pedio I could see it getting better.

I am a bit confused with what you sampled originally. Was it the stuff in a jar after it sat in the fridge and then a separate bottle of beer?

Sorry. After I finished bottling, I put some dregs in a jar planning to taste it. When I finally did weeks later it was very sour and then I threw that out. Not long after that I opened a bottle and it was super sour. Left the rest sit. Last night I tried another bottle, which was much less sour, almost drinkable, maybe even ok for someone who likes sour.

Nice to know it could get better even from lacto or pedio. I will give it time to, in case it does. If it ends up only a little sour I have a friend who would like it, so I am hoping.

Whatever happens I'm going to be sure to be careful with sanitizing. I thought I was but obviously not enough.

Thanks lots!

 

[ncbrewer]

I don't brew sours, so take this as just food for thought. The souring process can be very slow, so there might be a possibility of overcarbonation and bottle bombs as the beer ages.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Yes, a good cleaning is in order. Good luck [emoji256] I'm really speculating but did you steep the grains on the low side of temp?

 

[Calder]

Sour beer doesn't get less sour with time. Any type of souring contamination, just continues to create acid until the beer becomes so acidicthat it quits.

Souring quickly in a fermented beer (with alcohol present), I would suspect acetobacter (vinegar) Acetobacter does require the presence of both alcohol and oxygen, so bottling and carbonation probably stopped it. It should be obvious from tasting if it is acetobacter, the viegar flavor is very distinct.

I suspect it is not getting better. Probably you just want it to get better, and are somehow percieving it is 'OK', and may be getting better.

I had it happen to me one time, about 15 years ago. I struggled thru many bottles, telling myself that it was Ok ........ Inthe end I dumped about 75% of it. Glad to say it is the one and only time I have had an Acetobacter infection in several hundred brews.

I do brew a number of sours and really enjoy them, but drinking vinegar is not something I want to do again.

 

[AkTom]

It could be... you were just good.

 

[FatherDougal]

Sour beer doesn't get less sour with time. Any type of souring contamination, just continues to create acid until the beer becomes so acidicthat it quits.

Souring quickly in a fermented beer (with alcohol present), I would suspect acetobacter (vinegar) Acetobacter does require the presence of both alcohol and oxygen, so bottling and carbonation probably stopped it. It should be obvious from tasting if it is acetobacter, the viegar flavor is very distinct.

I suspect it is not getting better. Probably you just want it to get better, and are somehow percieving it is 'OK', and may be getting better.

I had it happen to me one time, about 15 years ago. I struggled thru many bottles, telling myself that it was Ok ........ Inthe end I dumped about 75% of it. Glad to say it is the one and only time I have had an Acetobacter infection in several hundred brews.

I do brew a number of sours and really enjoy them, but drinking vinegar is not something I want to do again.

I;m not sure if I would describe it as vinegary. I hate vinegar so don't taste it much. Not sure when the issue started. I didn't taste between pitching and the end of fermenting.

Pretty valid theory on wishful thinking, but I am certain it is better. The difference is pretty big. My thinking when I tried it again was "how could this be so much less bitter" not "I wonder if this is getting better." It was totally unexpected. I was mostly tasting because I wanted to remind myself how bad it was before I dumped it.

I think I'll just wait and see what happens. It isn't like it costs me anything to let it sit.

 

[FatherDougal]

It could be... you were just good.

Thanks!

More likely to be lucky. I doubt I did anything other than let it sit, which is common advice. I have noticed my beers often are a bit too sour/bitter when bottled but that goes away in a month or so.

 

[voltron]

Ten days ago I tested an ale that had been bottled a little over three weeks before. I saved a little of the extra for tasting at the time, but forgot to try it for a while. (Shoved in the fridge) That sample was undrinkably sour, and I thought it was from the non-sanitied jar. (I had planned to drink it right away) Turned out the whole batch was Very Amazingly Sour. I was sad but didn't do anything with it. I tried it again tonight thinking I might reuse the bottles and it was much less sour. I had assumed it had been infected in the primary somehow, but if that had happened I would have thought it would stay bad. Could the beer just be super sour somehow and need a ton of aging? I'm planning to just let it go a long while and see, but I would never have guessed that something so sour I could still taste it the next morning could get better. Any thoughts?

Recipe below.

2.125 gallons
2lbs light DME
10 oz pale chocolate
2 oz Crystal 40
2 oz Golden naked oats

.25 oz East Kent Goldings at 45 minutes.

US-05

OG = 1.054
FG = 1.010

Sounds like contamination. If it is drinakble and what i mean is not rot. Then sometimes you can think outside the box. How will it taste as say a beer cocktail.

2 oz. bourbon
1/4 oz. simple syrup
Barspoon of orange marmalade
2 dashes orange bitters
2 oz. of your beer


I have had brewing mishaps for all sort of reason and many times i have been able to save batches by making it into something else. For example i brewed a gooseberry wine and this one time it was super tart. .it was five gallons and was going to toss it, then one day I was a a bar and a girls mentione have you tried it as a spritzers, When i got home and wanted to test the idea, i didnt have club or tonic so decided to use diet sprite which in the fridge. man it was great. gooseberry wine, diet sprite and some ice. anyway many of my friends hated the gooseberry straight but really loved it as a modified spritzer. So maybe if your beer is consumable try it as a beer cocktail.

 

[FatherDougal]

Sounds like contamination. If it is drinakble and what i mean is not rot. Then sometimes you can think outside the box. How will it taste as say a beer cocktail.

2 oz. bourbon
1/4 oz. simple syrup
Barspoon of orange marmalade
2 dashes orange bitters
2 oz. of your beer


I have had brewing mishaps for all sort of reason and many times i have been able to save batches by making it into something else. For example i brewed a gooseberry wine and this one time it was super tart. .it was five gallons and was going to toss it, then one day I was a a bar and a girls mentione have you tried it as a spritzers, When i got home and wanted to test the idea, i didnt have club or tonic so decided to use diet sprite which in the fridge. man it was great. gooseberry wine, diet sprite and some ice. anyway many of my friends hated the gooseberry straight but really loved it as a modified spritzer. So maybe if your beer is consumable try it as a beer cocktail.

That is very clever thank you!

I wonder if it would mix well with a sweet cider, like Strongbow. I'll see how it is in a month or two and then do some experimenting.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Just a side note, you seem to be using the words bitter and sour to describe the beer in your last couple of posts. These are two completely different tastes. Is it more bitter or is it more sour? The causes could be completely different...

 

[FatherDougal]

Just a side note, you seem to be using the words bitter and sour to describe the beer in your last couple of posts. These are two completely different tastes. Is it more bitter or is it more sour? The causes could be completely different...

Sour. I have had some beers that seems a little too bitter when bottled but those all got better with age. This one was sour, if it was bitter I couldn't taste it past the sour.

 

[FatherDougal]

Just a side note, you seem to be using the words bitter and sour to describe the beer in your last couple of posts. These are two completely different tastes. Is it more bitter or is it more sour? The causes could be completely different...

Sour. I have had some beers that seems a little too bitter when bottled but those all got better with age. This one was sour, if it was bitter I couldn't taste it past the sour.

 

[voltron]

That is very clever thank you!

I wonder if it would mix well with a sweet cider, like Strongbow. I'll see how it is in a month or two and then do some experimenting.

That may work very well, sweet and sour complement themselves. It may not have been you original goal, but hey it sounds like you will end up with a great drink either way. Im thinking of giving your idea a try of mixing a sour beer with a sweet strongbow cider.