Wanted: Double Dead Guy Clone

[ultravista]

Has anyone successfuly brewed a batch of Double Dead Guy?

I would like to give it a shot.

Can someone suggest or post an all grain recipe? Post your tasting notes and opinions on how close the recipe is to the real thing.

From Rouge ....
-----------------------------------------------------
Malts: C15, Rogue Micro Barley Farm Dare & Risk Malts
Hops: Crystal & Rogue Micro Hopyard Rebel Hops
Yeast & Water: Rogue's Pacman Yeast

Specs:
20º PLATO
60 IBU
78 AA
25º Lovibond

http://www.rogue.com/beers/double-deadguy.php
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[rockfish42]

I'd suggest taking the Can You Brew it recipe and adjusting the hopping and gravity up to the level listed. In my experience you should only really increase the base malt and leave the specialty grains alone.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/can-you-brew-recipe-rogue-dead-guy-ale-175382/

 

[ultravista]

I don't think doubling the recipe results in a Double Dead Guy. The malts are very similar but the hops are different as well as the hop schedule.

I am sure someone on this board has brewed something similar.

 

[joel4482]

I am a brewer at rogue and will try and point you in the right direction. It can be hard to convert from a huge batch to a small one, but here is some info I can give you. We use marketing terms for Dare and risk malts. They are GWM 2 row and GWM Munich malt basically. We have our own barley farm but have Great Western Malting Malt(GWM) Malt them for us. Hops we use Perle grown our hop farm for bittering @60 min and sterling grown on our own farm for aroma(in whirlpool). I would use about 70% GWM 2 row, 20% GWM Munich, and 10% GWM C15 to reach about 20 Plato on your system. I have never homebrewed this beer but these are the actual ingredient we put in the beer. Our marketing people put different names on the ingredients sometimes on the bottles. The bittering hops, I would use a calculator to get close to the 68 IBU with Perle it would depend on what AA you get. Use some sterling at the last 5 min or end of boil. I would be guessing at an amount for a 5 gallon batch but I would say about 1.5 oz.

 

[ultravista]

Joel,

AWESOME - thank you for the detailed input!

Previously, the Rogue website listed Cascade as the single hop in Double Dead Guy.
1) Have you replaced Cascade with Pearle and Sterling for this generation of DDG?

The previous and current DDG web page lists IBU at 60
1) Is this Rager or Tinseth?
2) Your post suggests 68 IBU, a bit higher than documented. Is this a typo or is DDG hoppier than the website stats?
* The recipe produced for below for 60 IBU in Beersmith 1.4 changes to 79 IBU on the Rager scale.
* On the Rager scale, the hop schedule changes from 2.55 oz. at 60 minutes and 1.0 oz. at 15 minutes to 2.0 oz. at 60 minutes and .50 ounce at 15 minutes. However, if I change to 2.0 oz. at 60 minutes and 1.50 ounce at 15 minutes, the Rager IBU bumps to 68 – the same as you suggested.

A few miscellaneous questions:
1) First and foremost, how does the recipe look?
2) What would you change / adjust?
3) What is final gravity post ferment?
4) Can you describe the differences between Dead Guy and Double Dead Guy? Since the grain bill is very similar, I am curious to know what sets the two products apart. I was assuming the shift from Pearl and Sterling to Cascade but you would know best.

Here's the Beersmith 1.4 recipe using Cascade for 60 IBU (Tinseth scale)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recipe: Double Dead Guy Test 3
Style: Mailbock/Helles Bock
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (50.0) Freakin awesome!

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 6.14 gal
Estimated OG: 1.085 SG
Estimated Color: 9.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 60.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.55 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.00 %
3.30 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 20.00 %
1.65 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 15L (15.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
2.55 oz Cascade [7.40 %] (60 min) Hops 50.3 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [7.40 %] (15 min) Hops 9.8 IBU
1 Pkgs Pacman (Wyeast Labs #1764) [Starter 1000 ml Yeast-Ale]


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 16.50 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Mash In Add 20.63 qt of water at 170.5 F 158.0 F
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[joel4482]

Joel,

AWESOME - thank you for the detailed input!

Previously, the Rogue website listed Cascade as the single hop in Double Dead Guy.
1) Have you replaced Cascade with Pearle and Sterling for this generation of DDG? yes sort of, never has been cascades for the three years I have been here. I don't think it ever was cascades we might have used crystal or hallertau instead of sterling before though

The previous and current DDG web page lists IBU at 60
1) Is this Rager or Tinseth? Not sure
2) Your post suggests 68 IBU, a bit higher than documented. Is this a typo or is DDG hoppier than the website stats? Typo on my part
* The recipe produced for below for 60 IBU in Beersmith 1.4 changes to 79 IBU on the Rager scale.
* On the Rager scale, the hop schedule changes from 2.55 oz. at 60 minutes and 1.0 oz. at 15 minutes to 2.0 oz. at 60 minutes and .50 ounce at 15 minutes. However, if I change to 2.0 oz. at 60 minutes and 1.50 ounce at 15 minutes, the Rager IBU bumps to 68 – the same as you suggested.

A few miscellaneous questions:
1) First and foremost, how does the recipe look?Looks pretty good
2) What would you change / adjust?I would change the hops to perle boil and sterling aroma and change the aroma to 5 min instead of 15 min. Mash at 152
3) What is final gravity post ferment?1.015 give or take.001
4) Can you describe the differences between Dead Guy and Double Dead Guy? Since the grain bill is very similar, I am curious to know what sets the two products apart. I was assuming the shift from Pearl and Sterling to Cascade but you would know best.Just the amount of each of the ingredients. The difference is DDG has a little sweeter finish and more bitterness to balance it, also a slight alcoholic flavor in the finish of DDG. The ingredients are the same just different amount and slightly different ratios

Here's the Beersmith 1.4 recipe using Cascade for 60 IBU (Tinseth scale)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recipe: Double Dead Guy Test 3
Style: Mailbock/Helles Bock
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (50.0) Freakin awesome!

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 6.14 gal
Estimated OG: 1.085 SG
Estimated Color: 9.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 60.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.55 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.00 %
3.30 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 20.00 %
1.65 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 15L (15.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
2.55 oz Cascade [7.40 %] (60 min) Hops 50.3 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [7.40 %] (15 min) Hops 9.8 IBU
1 Pkgs Pacman (Wyeast Labs #1764) [Starter 1000 ml Yeast-Ale]


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 16.50 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Mash In Add 20.63 qt of water at 170.5 F 158.0 F
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope I answered your questions

 

[ultravista]

Joel,

I modified the hops and mash temperature as suggested; the IBU comes in at 60 IBU.

I've got to figure out the Rager / Tineseth question as it makes a huge difference. Based on a little trial and error, I assume Rager.

One big issue I see is Beersmith calculates OG at 1.085 SG and 1.024 FG - a considerable difference of 9 points. I am using Pacman as the yeast so I don't know where the discrepency begins.

In Beersmith, the average attenuation for Pacman was 70%. I changed the value from .70 to .80 and the FG estimate dropped to 1.016. Do you have any idea the attenuation at Rogue? The AA listed (77) is apparent attenuation correct, not alpha acid content? Any ideas?

I plan on fermenting around 60 degree (f). How long would you leave the batch in the primary before kegging?

While I have your help, can you share the malt percentages and hops for Dead Guy?

Are the hops the same in Dead Guy, Pearle and Sterling? The website lists Pearle and Saaz ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recipe: Double Dead Guy Test 3
Style: Mailbock/Helles Bock
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 6.14 gal
Estimated OG: 1.085 SG
Estimated Color: 9.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 60.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.55 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.00 %
3.30 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 20.00 %
1.65 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 15L (15.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
2.50 oz Pearle [8.00 %] (60 min) Hops 53.3 IBU
1.75 oz Sterling [7.50 %] (5 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
1 Pkgs Pacman (Wyeast Labs #1764)

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 16.50 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 20.63 qt of water at 163.7 F 152.0 F
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[ultravista]

Joel, are you still checking this thread?

 

[joel4482]

Joel,

I modified the hops and mash temperature as suggested; the IBU comes in at 60 IBU.

I've got to figure out the Rager / Tineseth question as it makes a huge difference. Based on a little trial and error, I assume Rager.We send it to a lab that does not specify

One big issue I see is Beersmith calculates OG at 1.085 SG and 1.024 FG - a considerable difference of 9 points. I am using Pacman as the yeast so I don't know where the discrepency begins. S/B closer to FG of 1.019

In Beersmith, the average attenuation for Pacman was 70%. I changed the value from .70 to .80 and the FG estimate dropped to 1.016. Do you have any idea the attenuation at Rogue? The AA listed (77) is apparent attenuation correct, not alpha acid content? Any ideas?Attenuation is about 77%

I plan on fermenting around 60 degree (f). How long would you leave the batch in the primary before kegging?If possible start at 65 until it gets going then lower the temp to 60

While I have your help, can you share the malt percentages and hops for Dead Guy?67% 2-row,23% Munich,10% Crystal 15

Are the hops the same in Dead Guy, Pearle and Sterling? The website lists Pearle and Saaz ...Yes, but saaz wouldn't be a bad sub

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recipe: Double Dead Guy Test 3
Style: Mailbock/Helles Bock
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 6.14 gal
Estimated OG: 1.085 SG
Estimated Color: 9.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 60.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.55 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.00 %
3.30 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 20.00 %
1.65 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 15L (15.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
2.50 oz Pearle [8.00 %] (60 min) Hops 53.3 IBU
1.75 oz Sterling [7.50 %] (5 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
1 Pkgs Pacman (Wyeast Labs #1764)

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 16.50 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 20.63 qt of water at 163.7 F 152.0 F
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry it took so long to respond i've been busy

 

[ultravista]

Joel,

You stated "S/B closer to FG of 1.019" - what is S/B?

Anything else out-of-the-ordinary in the D.D.G.A brewing process? Out of curiosity, how long from boil to bottle?

Good to know about Pacman and the 65 degree drop to 60. I chill my wort with a plate chiller and ferment (the carboy) in a large round 10 gallon tub. With that volume of water, cycling a large ice bottle twice a day is enough to maintain 60 degrees.

For my next batch, I plan on the Can You Brew It recipe for Dead Guy. Your percentages (67% 2-row, 23% Munich, and 10% C15) are exactly what the CYBI recipe calls for!

After that, it's Double Dead Guy.

Thank you again Joel.

 

[joel4482]

S/B is Should be, sorry I forget not everyone knows the acronyms we use at rogue

 

[BigJerk]

Nice, now I just need to figure out a clone for the Festivale Rogue used to brew and I'll be good to go!

 

[ultravista]

Joel,

1). Beersmith estimates the color at 9.5 SRM - DDGA is 25 Lovibond. What do you think about the color?

Munich Malt is 9 SRM where CaraMunich Malt is 56 SRM. I am struggling how to get to 25 Lovibond / SRM using general Munich malt. Any ideas?

2). I had to increase the hops to account for the lower Alpha Acids for both Pearle and Sterling (as sold by Brewmasters Warehouse). With that being said, would you increase the Pearle at 60 minutes or Sterling at 5 minutes? It would be helpful to know to get the right amount (or percentages) at boil and flameout.

** IBU's are now in Rager

3). Do you happen to recall the specific bop IBU targets for the large batch?

---------
Recipe: Double Dead Guy Test 4 (rager)
Style: Mailbock/Helles Bock

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 6.43 gal
Estimated OG: 1.086 SG
Estimaged FG: 1.018
Estimated Color: 9.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 59.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.55 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.00 %
3.30 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 20.00 %
1.65 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 15L (15.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
1.85 oz Pearle [7.50 %] (60 min) Hops 53.0 IBU
1.75 oz Sterling [6.00 %] (5 min) Hops 6.7 IBU
1 Pkgs Pacman (Wyeast Labs #1764) [Starter 1000 mYeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 16.50 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 20.63 qt of water at 163.7 F 152.0 F


Notes:
------
** SCALE SHOULD BE RAGER FOR ACCURATE IBU AROUND 60 **
---------

 

[danio]

Did anyone ever try this recipe? Considering it for my first AG batch but in a 2 gallon version. I just harvested some pacman from a bottle and am feeding it and want to use it.

 

[ultravista]

Joel - I hope you are still subscrided to this thread.

Which Munich do you use for DG and DDGA? Regular Munich, Munich 10 L, or Munch 20 L?

 

[Hoppylikerabbits]

Sorry to dig up an old post but how did this recipe taste compared to the original DDG?

 

[ultravista]

Hoppylikerabbits - I got the recipe from John M. himself.

2 Row: 68%
Munich: 22.5%
C15: 9.5%

Bittering Hops: Perle
Flavoring / Aroma Hops: Sterling

Mash at 152

Pacman

It tasted damned good, so much so that I will be brewing my 3rd batch in a few weeks. An amped-up Dead Guy.

----------------------
Recipe: Rogue Double Dead

Specs: 20º PLATO, 60 IBU, 78 AA, 25º Lovibond

Boil Size: 6.74 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.084 SG
Estimated Color: 9.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 65.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------

12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) - 67.8%
4 lbs Munich Malt - 22.6%
1 lbs 11.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 9.6%

2.25 oz Perle [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Sterling [7.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min

1.0 pkg Pacman (Wyeast #1764)
----------------------------
Mast at 152 F