Vinegar

[Danny spain]

Hi everyone. My attempt at wine has become vinegar. I suspect that there was too much air contact( I'm trying to naturally ferment). If it had been wine, i would now have it sealed and let it settle, since i moved it into a secondary(stainless steel) vat. Is the procedure the same with vinegar? I'm hoping someone may have some advice for me since i have about 5 gallons of it.
Also if an admin could help me with a name change. Not sure how my name became Danny... Thanks!!!

 

[SatchIce9]

By "naturally ferment", do you mean trusting to luck as to whatever yeast happens to multiply in the must to turn the sugar to ethanol, and hoping acetic acid bacteria don't get in it to turn the ethanol into vinegar?

 

[hawkwing]

That’s the problem with natural fermentation. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t.

Apparently fruit flies carry the bacteria so if they can get to the wine it’s a problem too.

I’ve always wanted to try making vinegar but haven’t yet. I might try with some of my cider this year. To do so it’s my understanding that you make alcohol then do an acetic acid bacterial fermentation to convert alcohol to vinegar.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

That’s the problem with natural fermentation. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t.

Apparently fruit flies carry the bacteria so if they can get to the wine it’s a problem too.

I’ve always wanted to try making vinegar but haven’t yet. I might try with some of my cider this year. To do so it’s my understanding that you make alcohol then do an acetic acid bacterial fermentation to convert alcohol to vinegar.

I had it happen to a gallon of hard cider I just had in a jug in the fridge not airtight. Turned into a lovely gallon of balsamic vinegar.

 

[Danny spain]

By "naturally ferment", do you mean trusting to luck as to whatever yeast happens to multiply in the must to turn the sugar to ethanol, and hoping acetic acid bacteria don't get in it to turn the ethanol into vinegar?

yes. I'm living in the canary islands and this is the typical way wine is made here.

 

[Danny spain]

That’s the problem with natural fermentation. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t.

Apparently fruit flies carry the bacteria so if they can get to the wine it’s a problem too.

I’ve always wanted to try making vinegar but haven’t yet. I might try with some of my cider this year. To do so it’s my understanding that you make alcohol then do an acetic acid bacterial fermentation to convert alcohol to vinegar.

that's what i've read so far. I'm trying to figure out if there's anything special i need to do. at this point i'm guessing i would just make the barrel air tight and let the vinegar age for a bit. i still seem to have alcohol in it, about 8.5%. the vinegar stays between 18.5 and 20 degrees, but when i seal it it will be at the ambient temperature of the room it's in about 23 degrees. my issue was not so much the fruit fly's but the cooling coils go inside of my barrels and would usually have been submerged under the wine more. there was a much smaller crop this year 240kg last year versus 40 this year

 

[chthon]

that's what i've read so far. I'm trying to figure out if there's anything special i need to do. at this point i'm guessing i would just make the barrel air tight and let the vinegar age for a bit. i still seem to have alcohol in it, about 8.5%. the vinegar stays between 18.5 and 20 degrees, but when i seal it it will be at the ambient temperature of the room it's in about 23 degrees. my issue was not so much the fruit fly's but the cooling coils go inside of my barrels and would usually have been submerged under the wine more. there was a much smaller crop this year 240kg last year versus 40 this year

What was your original alcohol percentage of your wine?

To have a usable vinegar you should normally dilute the alcohol to around 5.5%. The vinegar from that is not to weak to inhibit other contaminations (e;g. when pickling with it), and not too strong to use in the kitchen. Also, just like with yeast, too much acetic acid will kill or disable the vinegar bacteria.

Do not seal the barrel, but bind a cloth over it, so that the vinegar bacteria can breathe. Vinegar needs oxygen.

Vinegar is good when it still contains a little bit of alcohol. At that point you can filter if there is mother of vinegar floating in it. Then you can bottle it, or rack it (without access to oxygen) for further ageing. You can also pasteurise it.

 

[Danny spain]

What was your original alcohol percentage of your wine?

To have a usable vinegar you should normally dilute the alcohol to around 5.5%. The vinegar from that is not to weak to inhibit other contaminations (e;g. when pickling with it), and not too strong to use in the kitchen. Also, just like with yeast, too much acetic acid will kill or disable the vinegar bacteria.

Do not seal the barrel, but bind a cloth over it, so that the vinegar bacteria can breathe. Vinegar needs oxygen.

Vinegar is good when it still contains a little bit of alcohol. At that point you can filter if there is mother of vinegar floating in it. Then you can bottle it, or rack it (without access to oxygen) for further ageing. You can also pasteurise it.

To dilute it just add water? It was a shade under 11% when i started. It is in a secondary vat now(stainless) and is open and is covered by a cloth. I filtered it before starting in the primary rack, and filtered the mother about 10 days ago when I moved it to a fresh vat.
Am i wrong to think when I seal it more of the alcohol will be converted, or should I dilute it and seal it now, or just let it stand a bit longer? By the way thanks everyone for the help. This is my second year making....well trying to make wine. Since i come from Brooklyn I have no idea about making wine but i'm learning...

 

[chthon]

Yes, just add proper water, RO or demineralised if possible.

That will mean that you will now have two vats of the same volume, and you should leave them open to turn the rest of the alcohol into vinegar. Probably adding back the mother of vinegar to both will speed up the rest of the process.

About wine making: from your own grapes or from juice? I have already made wine three times from my own grapes (three kinds, two white, one red, I blend them), and I get a decent semi-sweet rosé wine of 10,5 % (I do need to add sugar, most of my grapes get sun but not the whole day). I started with my brewing implements, and I could borrow a press from a colleague of my wife. I clean my grapes in a solution of metabisulphite, remove them from the stems, crush them and add pectinase, rest for 24 hours, then press them, add sugar, ferment, rack into secondary jars and leave them for six or seven months in my garage. I haven't measured acidity or had the need to add things for brightening, or other extras. Adter six months a whole lot of tannins have dropped out of the wine.

 

[Danny spain]

From my own grapes. I bought a house here in Lanzarote, and I have 88 vines and a few fruit trees. This is a volcanic island off the coast of Africa, so we get plenty of sun. I have 4 different grapes and a fully functional bodega. Meaning press, crusher/destemer, 3 stainless vats, etc. Here the red wines have a bit of a bite, so they are not my favorite . The whites are much better. Because of the low volume of the grapes this year i made a blend. The vines needed to be fertilized and the guy that showed me how to cut the vines back told me the yield would be down for this year. I add nothing to the grapes and the whites and Malvasia come off the skins immediately. The red stays on for a couple of weeks

 

[chthon]

88 vines, wow. I only got five, but I get plenty of grapes from them, and I can use the neighbour's too. I only make around 3 gallons of wine. Still a better use of my grapes than letting them get eaten by the birds, the wasps and the moulds. I live in Belgium, normally not so sunny, but this year mostly sunny and dry.

 

[Danny spain]

The weathers nice here. Even in the winter it's shorts in the daytime and a sweatshirt at night. It rains maybe 2 months out of the year. NO SNOW!!!