Very thin? ...Report on a Flanders Red

[JeffOYB]

MY REPORT ON MY FIRST FLANDERS ATTEMPT:

I'm aiming for "easy" with my first attempt at a Flanders Red. I'm using Sparrow's recipe. I boiled it up and pitched and it bubbled and now it's maybe 7 months later. I sampled it and it's tangy.

It's a bit underwhelming how 'thin' it is. Attenuated might be the term. It's kinda like tangy water. It tastes pretty good though, I guess. So I'm semi-happy for now. I do wish it had more body. It has nice color -- reddish light brown. I'm not the best at determining taste w/o carbonation. Tho I don't need a lot of fizz to like a beer.

This kind of beer is often blended, right? I figure I can do my own blending later. Like, I could just make 'black'n'tans' w it. ...I could add some storebought malty amber when it's time to drink to boost the body. My rule is my tastebuds! It has a lot of nice red/brown color to it, tho.

I haven't done any secondary. It just sits there in the primary fermenter. There is a 1-2" layer of white stuff at the bottom. I don't see a pellicle on top. It's in my basement which has maybe been about 60F all summer.

So now I just added a couple pounds of fresh frozen red raspberries that I've picked the last few weeks from my yard patch. I didn't boil them or even wash. They were clean. Probably they have yard yeast on them. Who knows. We'll see what happens. I just funneled them down the mouth of my carboy. I also added a couple ounces of oak chips that I'd soaked a few days in water then drained off the water. (I've read that I can keep the oak chips but I don't know how I'm going to separate them from the glop. I can try to later on after bottling.) Maybe I'll try to pipette off another pint so I can fit in another couple pounds of berries. Sparrow writes that a pound per gallon is common. But I bet so is just adding "what ya got, as much as you might feel like." So now I'll keep an eye on it and see if it starts bubbling again. And I'll taste now'n'then. My vague idea is that it might taste even niftier in a month. Hopefully all the berries sink over time. Then after fizzing is done awhile I could siphon/strain into a metal pot with some bottling sugar in it then bottle.

(UPDATE: It's been a couple days now since I added my berries. I carried the carboy upstairs where it's prolly 68F. The bubbler is now starting to bubble now'n'then. I piped off another pint and added another half-pound or so of berries. The berries are now white, floating at top with the oak chips. I missed the memo that to add 5 lbs of berries I might have to pipe off a half gallon. I tasted what I piped off after the berries had been added a couple days: it tasted like berry-water. Well, gotta start somewhere!)

I'm not big on waiting. So at each step of this game when I sample it if it tastes good I'll move to the next step. Sure, it might get even better w time but if it seems good then I'll probably act.

To me, sour Belgian beer goes with CYCLOCROSS. And that season is just starting. Also my birthday is Oct 30. So I wouldn't mind starting to drink these in November.

Conversely, if a sample doesn't taste good at any step, I'll let it sit and taste again later to see if anything got better. I might also read more as I go along to see if any possible fix at some point inspires me.

I've seen notes about "bottle bombs" and long-term fermenting creating ever more CO2. And so some don't like to bottle w extra sugar it looks like. But I'm thinking my friends and I will drink this 5 gal batch quick enough to not get in pressure trouble. A 2-wk carbonation plan doesn't sound bad to me. I use heavy pint bottles.

If no fizz happens in a few days w these berries then I will read up a bit more and maybe add some Monk's Cafe dregs and see if that starts anything.

That's my report!

 

[burninator]

What culture did you pitch?

I'm concerned you're pushing this beer too quickly. A traditional Flanders Red might be aged for at least a year, and sometimes several years.

This isn't going to be a beer with a ton of body. A mixed culture is likely to dry it out substantially, but with some age, the complexity of flavor will make up for the lack of body.

Also, as you're adding additional sugar through fruit, be careful about bottling too soon. If your mixed culture contains brett, gravity could continue to drop for the next few months.

 

[worlddivides]

This isn't going to be a beer with a ton of body. A mixed culture is likely to dry it out substantially, but with some age, the complexity of flavor will make up for the lack of body.

This. Sour beers in general don't have much body. The most famous style of sour beer, lambics, have the least body of them all, oftentimes ending with a final gravity around 1.001. In fact, gueuze (blend of aged and young lambic) is usually no higher than 1.001.

So, yeah, I do think that Burninator is 100% right and it's the complexity of flavor that helps make up for the lack of body.

The only sour beer style that I think generally has significant body is Flemish brown/oud bruin, but I do have to note here that I have had some lambics, Flemish reds, and other sours that had a decent amount of body. They do exist, but sour beers just in general tend to attenuate pretty low, resulting in less body than most other beer styles (including dry lagers and clean pale ales).

 

[specharka]

This. Sour beers in general don't have much body. The most famous style of sour beer, lambics, have the least body of them all, oftentimes ending with a final gravity around 1.001. In fact, gueuze (blend of aged and young lambic) is usually no higher than 1.001.

So, yeah, I do think that Burninator is 100% right and it's the complexity of flavor that helps make up for the lack of body.

The only sour beer style that I think generally has significant body is Flemish brown/oud bruin, but I do have to note here that I have had some lambics, Flemish reds, and other sours that had a decent amount of body. They do exist, but sour beers just in general tend to attenuate pretty low, resulting in less body than most other beer styles (including dry lagers and clean pale ales).

In my mind, "body" connotes an element which is not necessarily driven by the presence of unfermentable sugars in the beer. The tannins in gueuze make up for the lack of dextrins, and I've had quite a few with decent head retention as well. I believe it's a byproduct of the turbid mash schedule, the use of extremely hot sparge water, and extended aging in oak vessels. Even the addition of fruit can totally change the complexion of a lambic and how it sits on the tongue.

 

[JeffOYB]

I believe I used whatever yeast Sparrow suggests. I think it was a combo yeast, probably from that "Wy" company. It was months ago... I think it had bugs in it. I'm also looking at Papazian info. Yeah, I'll probably be rushing this beer. By lack of body, I mean it just seems watery right now. Like unsweetened koolaid w a slight tang. We'll see what gets happening. I won't bottle if it tastes lame. I'm using thick glass bottles. I don't want to burst bottles.

 

[JeffOYB]

PS: I really like the Reinhart's Wild Ale -- that has a head like meringue that lasts for the whole beer!

 

[worlddivides]

PS: I really like the Reinhart's Wild Ale -- that has a head like meringue that lasts for the whole beer!

Yeah, but that's not really a sour beer. It's a Belgian strong pale ale that has some Brett in it as a complementary characteristic (hence the "wild" part of the name). I don't think it tastes particularly sour or funky personally. And you are totally right about the massive head. I wouldn't be surprised if it has an FG over 1.010.

Flemish reds, on the other hand, are typically very sour. Some of the most sour beers I have ever had in my life have been Flemish reds. In fact, Flemish reds typically have an almost vinegar-like flavor to them due to how long they are aged (and acetobacter getting in there and producing acetic acid).

My guess for the yeast you used is Wyeast Roeselare blend. Is this it?

https://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=194

Or perhaps this one?

https://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=129

 

[JeffOYB]

Yeah, the Roeselare!

My berries are making the beer bubble again, very slowly. I'm still tempted to add dregs to pep it up, but maybe no?

Yeah, I now recall the Reinhart isn't sour, but man it's good!

 

[JeffOYB]

So... does the Sparrow Flanders Red typically start out very "thin" tasting? Even at 7 months? It has good color but not much taste. Slight tart.

 

[JeffOYB]

I'm lazy but willing to transfer my beer out of my primary and off the sediment and away from my pale, dead berry carcasses if that would be smart...

 

[JeffOYB]

The beer is darker now. Man, it's so thin and watery. Slight fruit taste. Weak koolaid. It's been whatever 9 months maybe. Not very tart, not very anything. Is this why such beers are aged for over a year? Maybe something will finally happen? No pellicle neither. A couple inches of white raspberry carcasses at the top and a couple inches of glop at the bottom.

 

[JeffOYB]

UPDATE: Beer is what 1 year 9 months or so. Guessing. It has a tart fruit taste. Gold color. I bottled 2 or 3 wks ago with corn sugar priming. I tasted one a few days ago. It had a little fizz to the tart. A bit like vinegar w fizz. Where did all those grains and berries go? Oak chips were in it about a year. It still is awful thin seeming to me.

I had a local brewer supplier taste it a few months ago. He said 'complex, yeah, berries.' Then he said I shd have some local microbrew dudes taste it. Sorry, no time. I drove an hour for that one test as it was. He didn't say it was 'off' anyway. So I pressed on and bottled a couple months later.

So... I'm wondering if BLENDING is a solution. I mean crude blending. Could I just mix the beer as I drink it? I'm guessing a lightly hopped malty beer? I suppose I can just see if I can find a beer that tastes good w it.